2008 Greater Toronto Regional!

[astephen68]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

If your robot is truly performing well and it is just bad luck, then you have decent shot of getting picked. GTR has several veteran teams who are skilled at scouting; 1114 comes to mind immediately, you don't when 8 of your last 9 regionals just off of luck and a good robot. Those who have been around for a bit know to look past ranking.

1114 is an awesome team

[Kate00]

Originally Posted by astephen68

yes 1114 does scouting but what about their second pick. they know that their going to win so they chose a ok or bad robot fro their third pick to win with so to look good and less competition in atlanta. Also 1114 most of the times at regionals that the teams they mentor or were mentored by them are their they chose them like this years waterloo. 1114,2056,1608.....

Uhm, I respectfully disagree.

1114 does the best scouting I have ever seen in FIRST. They have exact statistics on every single team at the regionals they attend - how many lines and balls they do in hybrid, how many laps they do, how many hurdles they do, how many places they make. They use this as the basis of their pick lists.

The reason 1114 is forced to pick a middle-of-the-road robot for their second pick is because of the nasty thing called the serpentine draft - but that's a whole other can of worms to be opened at another time. They will always pick the best available robot to complement their alliance, and make the best use of them possible, because they do know that they aren't unbeatable. They want to ensure they have the best chance possible of winning the regional, therefore, they pick the best robots possible. I would expect nothing less from any team out there. Noone is guaranteed a regional win, let alone 1114, but they do an amazing job at inviting the best possible alliance mates to work with them, to give them the best chance possible.

Yes, 1114 picks teams that they mentor. Not because of the fact they mentor them, but because of the fact that the teams they mentor are the best robots available. That in itself says tremendous things about their program - the teams they mentor consistently rank very high, and are generally in the top level of teams at a regional. They are obviously doing something extremely right, that they transfer to those teams. It is no wonder that they won the RCA in Waterloo - their program is, in my opinion, one of the strongest out there. Both of the rookie teams 1114 mentored last year made it to the Championship, and made the eliminations in their respective divisions - not picked by 1114. The teams they mentor have a long history of success, between them: 7 Regional wins, 3 Regional finalists, 1 Rookie Inspiration Award, 3 Rookie All-Star Awards, a Motorola Quality Award, and 2 Highest Rookie Seed Awards. Those speak for themselves to the quality of the teams they mentor, if you ask me.

Oh and by the way, at Waterloo 2008, 2056 picked 1114, not the other way around.

[lukevanoort]

Originally Posted by astephen68

yes 1114 does scouting but what about their second pick. they know that their going to win so they chose a ok or bad robot fro their third pick to win with so to look good and less competition in atlanta. Also 1114 most of the times at regionals that the teams they mentor or were mentored by them are their they chose them like this years waterloo. 1114,2056,1608.....

I hope that's sarcasm or a joke, because I doubt 1114 ever knows their going to win, and I am certain that they don't pick bad teams in order to boost their own image (often the last robots picked are just okay, but alliance captains have no control over that, since they are the last ones picked). And I also doubt 1114 chooses teams they mentor because they mentored them. You'll note that every time 1114 has picked another NiagaraFIRST team, they picked either one of the best or the best robot available to them. It wouldn't surprise me if they leaned towards teams they knew well (more familiarity = better efficiency on the field), but I would be extremely surprised if they go into alliance selections thinking "How many NiagaraFIRST teams can we get on our alliance."

[astephen68]

Originally Posted by Kate Mosley

Uhm, I respectfully disagree.

1114 does the best scouting I have ever seen in FIRST. They have exact statistics on every single team at the regionals they attend - how many lines and balls they do in hybrid, how many laps they do, how many hurdles they do, how many places they make. They use this as the basis of their pick lists.

1114 is an awesome team

[astephen68]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

I hope that's sarcasm or a joke, because I doubt 1114 ever knows their going to win, and I am certain that they don't pick bad teams in order to boost their own image (often the last robots picked are just okay, but alliance captains have no control over that, since they are the last ones picked). And I also doubt 1114 chooses teams they mentor because they mentored them. You'll note that every time 1114 has picked another NiagaraFIRST team, they picked either one of the best or the best robot available to them. It wouldn't surprise me if they leaned towards teams they knew well (more familiarity = better efficiency on the field), but I would be extremely surprised if they go into alliance selections thinking "How many NiagaraFIRST teams can we get on our alliance."

1114 is an awesome team

[Vince lau]

Originally Posted by astephen68

yes 1114 does scouting but what about their second pick. they know that their going to win so they chose a ok or bad robot fro their third pick to win with so to look good and less competition in atlanta. Also 1114 most of the times at regionals that the teams they mentor or were mentored by them are their they chose them like this years waterloo. 1114,2056,1608.....

I have to disagree with you here, First, no team even knows they are going to win for sure, they might be favourites, but they aren't guaranteed to win, there are always upsets.
and by saying that they pick a ok or bad robot as a second pick, just so they look good and so there will be less competition at the championships. i think you just disrespect the all the hard work those teams put into their robot. I'm not speaking for 1114, but i think that they pick the best team out of the remaining teams that they think will be best for the alliance. 2006 Waterloo for example 1114 and 1503 picked 1281 as the last pick, the reason they picked us was because of our drive system and from their scouting they knew that we would be able to play good defense for them.
1114 knows how to scout and I think they have some of the best scouts out there.

[astephen68]

The only thing bad about this years completion anywhere is that you can't play defence like the other years. Like other years you could defeat the #1 seeded alliance, you could win with an 8th place seed this year you can't

[Nawaid Ladak]

Originally Posted by astephen68

The only thing bad about this years completion anywhere is that you can't play defence like the other years. Like other years you could defeat the #1 seeded alliance, you could win with an 8th place seed this year you can't

The Defense i agree with

but the rest, 8v1 is a different case a each regional. Midwest was packed, while waterloo had 2056, 1114, and the rest of the robots were nowhere near their level of play.

if you want to prove this theory, let me know when championships come around

[IntensifiedAmp]

Originally Posted by lukevanoort

If your robot is truly performing well and it is just bad luck, then you have decent shot of getting picked. GTR has several veteran teams who are skilled at scouting; 1114 comes to mind immediately, you don't win 8 of your last 9 regionals just off of luck and a good robot. Those who have been around for a bit know to look past ranking.

You couldn't have said it better. For example, say a team has done only one error, and say its a human error easy to fix, such as "someone messed with a limit switch" (which happened to another team unfortunately) or something related, I think very insightful scouters would know and come back for another match.

Well of course they look for consistency, but good scouters know what mistakes were made and how often. And if it isn't often, then I think you got yourself a good one. (Of course it depends on every other factor)

Yes and I have to stress his point -- Rank clearly does not matter in the picks too much. I would say there would be a trend for sure, but sometimes you'd have to omit that to circumstances.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by astephen68

The only thing bad about this years completion anywhere is that you can't play defence like the other years. Like other years you could defeat the #1 seeded alliance, you could win with an 8th place seed this year you can't

I think the inability of an alliance to do anything to repress an opponent's hybrid mode proficiency is the number one contributor to "super" alliance success at regionals this season. Alliances without spiffy hybrids are frequently sunk by 40+ points by those with awesome modes before they even touch the controls. Very hard to overcome that, whether you can play D during teleop or not.

It's a case of the match being over before it even started. And the crowd goes wild!.....

But yes, at the Championship, more lower-seeded alliances will also possess effective hybrid modes, so the hybrid gap will not be as insurmountable as often, and they will have a better shot at unseating the top seeds in Atlanta.

If you have a strong hybrid mode, you will make an attractive 2nd pick selection for most picking teams at the Georgia Dome.

[Richard Wallace]

So, predictions? I'll go out on a limb and project 1114 as the #1 seed. They can't seem to score in less than triple digits.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Richard

So, predictions? I'll go out on a limb and project 1114 as the #1 seed. They can't seem to score in less than triple digits.

The only way 1114 does not get #1 seed is if 188 or 2056's opponents score 200+ points and still lose.

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

The only way 1114 does not get #1 seed is if 188 or 2056's opponents score 200+ points and still lose.

Yeah, I didn't say it was much of limb.

So, 1114 picks 2056. 188 picks 176. 1114/2056 put up a 200+ score in the quarterfinals. The finals go three matches.

[VEN]

gah, was I WRONG or what?

[astephen68]

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak

The Defense i agree with

but the rest, 8v1 is a different case a each regional. Midwest was packed, while waterloo had 2056, 1114, and the rest of the robots were nowhere near their level of play.

if you want to prove this theory, let me know when championships come around

very true and actually i forgot about one alliance member on our alliance when we were the 8th seeded alliance vs #1which was 1114,2056,1608. 2056 couldn't pick up the ball because our alliance partner 2361 pushed their ball around the course. if our alliance partner did that to 1114 they couldn't have score by hurdling they could still race but we would have had a better chance.The only way to defeat teams like this is to push their pall around because if they cannot hurdle they have a better chance of losing