What Do You Think About Teams Winning More Than One?

[Cow Bell Solo]

I was wondering what other people think about teams winning more than one award at the regionals. When our team a small one it is hard to get noticed even if we have a good robot, then there are large teams that are large and are loud, with everyone able to see and hear them and they win 3+ awards. Do you think teams should get more than one award depending on the awards?

[Vexkingof716]

Sometimes those big teams get multiple awards because of the number of kis on the team they can do more, but at the same time the small team can get noiced. We are a very small team. this yar is our biggest group with 16 kids. Every year we have always gotten an award or trophy for something. If a team dose so much the judges think it should get more than one award they must be doing a lot. I haven't seen very many teams getting more than one award at a regional, maybe multiple trophies, but not usually awards.

[Jherbie53]

Website is judged before the regional is even started, so a team can win that and not know until they get it. Usually they only get one "tech/robot" award and maybe another one, like Team Spirit, Animation, or Imagery. It all depends on the teams.

[Beth Sweet]

I find that there are a few categories of awards:

Woodie Flowers is in its own category
Animation is also in its own
Chairman's/Engineering Inspiration
On-field awards Regional Winner and Finalists
Other awards (Rockwell, Industrial Design etc.)

While I don't think it would ever happen, I think that it would be perfectly legitimate to be reconsidered for each of these categories. They each celebrate such different things!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

While I don't think it would ever happen, I think that it would be perfectly legitimate to be reconsidered for each of these categories. They each celebrate such different things!

Beth is right on. I have no problem with a team winning one award per category (e.g. robot, performance, CA/EI, Website and/or Animation, Woodie Flowers). However, if a team wins more than one award per category... then I have a problem.

And Vexking--My old team often had no more than 10 students (highest was 20+ before I joined) and has had only one award-less year. (Rookie year...) My current team has about the same number of students and has only two FRC awards...but plenty of FLL/FTC ones.

[Leav]

I know most judges have a really hard time deciding on this issue, so don't think they take it lightly....

There always needs to be a balance between spreading out the awards and giving them to those who deserve them.

that might sound outragous: "what?? sometimes a team that the judges know deserves an award won't get it because they are getting something else??!"

but you have to stop and see that it's really not about the awards... it's about the inspiration, and the awards are an opportunity to handout that inspiration to as many teams as possible.

I believe that there should be a unwritten rule where no team can win more than one award, unless they really really really deserve them.

Example A:
Team A wins an important award (any category but the WFA).
Team A has a very high quality robot.
Team B has a very high quality robot, but Team A's robot is slightly better.
I would give the Quality Award to Team B.

Example B:
Team A wins an important award (any category but the WFA).
Team A has a very high quality robot.
Team B has 2nd best quality robot in the regional, but Team A's robot is much better.
I would give the award to Team A.


Catch my drift?

-Leav

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I think it is important to note that many teams do not apply for some of the awards. I know that many teams who apply for Chairman's and WFA find it difficult to understand why many teams do not make submissions for these awards but it is true. If you don't apply you will never be considered. Even if a team is so challenged (due to size, school rules or funds) to not have a web design subteam or a safety animation or 3DS sub team, there is no excuse for not taking the time to write up one of your mentors for WFA. Those awards that are submitted in advance have nothing to do with the state of the team at the competition or how great their robot is. Even the Safety Award(s) look at how good a team takes safety as "Priority One" and have nothing what so ever to do with design, shop facilities or team numbers. Judged awards are decided on the judge's interviews with your team members during the event and are decided before the event finals are complete.

[Sunshine]

Why do I get this feeling that I am throwing myself into the fire?
well, here it goes ........


I believe that your suggestion is “somewhat flawed” (emphasis on "somewhat"). FIRST stands For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology. Their name says it all and puts emphasis on RECOGNITION. Recognition on being the best that you can be amongst your peers. It prepares you for life and life skills. The goals are for you to strive to be the best you can in ALL elements of FIRST.

It’s not about just building robots. You hear this over and over again by Woodie and Dean. It’s striving to be the best you can in all elements. And if you are THE best you should be recognized for it. That’s how life works and we should mirror how life gives recognition. You get awarded by excelling and being the best.

So you propose that a team only wins one award?
In the long haul, wouldn’t this cheapen the process? Would teams then strive for only one area of excellence? Would teams, knowing that they could only receive recognition in one category, only strive to improve in one area? I can not see how you can have it both ways. Be the best! And if you are the best in multiply areas you should be recognized for your accomplishments.

You mention that there are large teams that are large and are loud, with everyone able to see and hear them and they win 3+ awards. I do not believe that a loud team will win the WF, EI or CA awards. You may be right that they could/would win the Chrysler Team Spirit Award because they are large and loud but that would be it.

I started out by saying that your logic was somewhat flawed. I believe that FIRST recognizes your concerns and tries hard to spread the wealth. I believe that is way you do not see teams winning awards for CA and EI simultaneously. Do teams win the General Motors Industrial Design Award and the Delphi “Driving Tomorrow’s Technology” Award? I would have to do some digging but I believe that this does not happen because of the concerns you raise.

I believe that many of the awards inspire teams to work hard 12 months out of year. I believe that awards like the Web Page, CA, EI, Entrepreneurship Award and Safety Award fall under this category. IMHO, a team should work hard all year long on these and if they do great, they should be compensated. BUT, I do believe that a team should only win one award between CA, EI, and Entrepreneurship. These (IMHO) are the ultimate awards that everyone should be striving for. They show that you have the whole package. They show that you get it. They show everyone that you strive to be the best that you can be. Get one of these and you achieved the goals and mission of FIRST. Get recognized for one of these and you do not need any others. You will notice that put greater value on the Entrepreneurship Award. IMHO, I believe that this award should qualify you for the championship. In my mind it shows that you have developed a business plan that demonstrates you try to be the best in all of the other categories and you show that you are trying to sustain your great program. But again, that may just be me 

My last passing thought. I hope we never get to a point where a team doesn’t get the deserved recognition because they also have a great robot and do well in competition. Remember it’s a lot more than just building a robot. If a team does well for 12 months and also does well for 6 weeks during building season they should get recognized for their accomplishments both on and off the field.

Notice that these comments come from someone who won three awards in St. Louis so my ideas may be a bit tainted. BUT the students worked very hard all year long and strived to be the best they could in these catagories.

[Alex_Miller]

I think that if you win one award in a regional, then go onto the next regional you should not be able to win that award again at another regional (unless it's like winning the regional or something like that). This way it gives more recognition to more teams (this is true for Chairmans and Woody Flowers, right?)

[JesseK]

These are just rumors, but let's look at two case studies that seem very logical to how judging works out:

Case A:
Bluabot and Redabot have the most magificent and simple launcher you've ever seen. Both teams display and demonstrate this to the judges. Redabot also has a stupendous business plan for team sustainability that no other team at the regional can match. Hence, in the judges room, most judges are able to justify giving bluabot a technical award since redabot obviously deserves the entreprenuership award.

Case B:
Redabot and Bluabot are rivals at it again at a different regional. Redabot brings back their business plan and launcher but bluabot has trouble repairing theirs for demonstration to the judges. In the judges eyes, no team can touch redabot for entrepreneurship and now it also appears they clearly have the superior launcher. Since no other team compares to redabot at the regional for entrepreneurship and for innovation, redabot receives both awards.

Also, from what I've heard, judging goes a bit differently at different events. I've seen judges who are interested in only a certain aspect of the team, and I've seen judges who are interested in every aspect of a team. I've seen little "dots" indicating a team has already been judged on an aspect of a team (hence no other judge stops by for that aspect) and I've seen a team swarmed by judges throughout the day because they're all interested in seeing the team from every angle. Both scenarios have happened to us in the last 3 years at 5 different competition locations -- VCU, Vegas, Palmetto, Philly, and then the championships. Usually the awards we've won have been secondary to the team doing what we do normally, which is to try to be competitive while projecting a professional image and conveying our core team values. For teams that win multiple awards, we applaud them twice as much

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by MasterAlex

I think that if you win one award in a regional, then go onto the next regional you should not be able to win that award again at another regional (unless it's like winning the regional or something like that). This way it gives more recognition to more teams (this is true for Chairmans and Woody Flowers, right?)

You may only submit chairman's at one regional. However, your team may be SO deserving of an award at two events that clearly the inspiration you give to other teams needs to be recognized at both events.

[waialua359]

Everything is subjective to a point where judges are all humans, and where one judge thinks someone/something is the most outstanding, may differ at another regional.
Its like anything else in life......sports, academics, interviews, etc. etc. etc.

Unless FIRST deemed it illegal to enter more than one regional event, every team at every regional should be allowed to compete for awards, with the exception of awards that can be only entered at one.....WFA, CA, etc.

The only exception we will make personally, is not entering our CA at the same regional, if we already have won it. Its not that we think we can win again, its just that other teams rightfully deserving of the award, can have an opportunity without having a previous winner in the mix.

[Tom Hand]

I was a judge and I can tell you we worked VERY VERY hard to "spread the wealth". As pointed out, some awards are not judged that day or weekend.

FIRST truly stresses strongly to be fair to all and I was very proud that at ours, it worked great. Some teams still did win multiple awards but again, they earned them in competition or by other things (WF award, RCA, etc.).
Tom

[jayjaywalker3]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

I find that there are a few categories of awards:

Woodie Flowers is in its own category
Animation is also in its own
Chairman's/Engineering Inspiration
On-field awards Regional Winner and Finalists
Other awards (Rockwell, Industrial Design etc.)

While I don't think it would ever happen, I think that it would be perfectly legitimate to be reconsidered for each of these categories. They each celebrate such different things!

Does the spirit award go with those other awards?
Spirit award is based on that teams spirit at the regional right?