Look Back: Week 5

[cziggy343]

Originally Posted by Freddy Schurr

The Finals-2 was a sight to see and everyone should see it when it comes available to the Blue Alliance website. Trust me, this has got to be one of the greatest matches that I have ever seen.

the finals at palmetto were very exciting too. two ties

[Racer26]

Yeeeah, 1114 really quashed the rest of us at GTR...

the 1503,1507,247 v 188,?,? (sorry, dont remember) 3v1 was rather impressive, and the 3rd round of that semifinal was lost by only 2 points. This was also one of the only times I've seen the refs reviewing a video (i thought this was explicitly forbidden via the rules, but whatever) to ensure they made the right call.

[hipsterjr]

LookingForward, once again you disappoint me. Ask anyone who attended Palmetto and they will tell you that it was the most intense final in the events history. Pit Admin. said you were there, but I guess not since you completely over looked Palmetto. Don't take this the wrong way; I know you can't watch every single regional and report every detail. Just thought it was worth mention.

[eshteyn]

Week 5 was horrible for us, we suffered immense mechanical difficulty and ended up rebuilding the transmissions, replacing 4 motors, 4 victors, and 4 gears that connect the motors to the transmissions. It was horrible, by the last day we went 4 for 4 and now were back to full power.

[Frenchie]

27 did not break a drive shaft. They tipped over after getting hit. It came as quite a disappointment as 469 played their best match yet, hurdling better than any other robot on the field.

[nikeairmancurry]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

27 did not break a drive shaft. They tipped over after getting hit. It came as quite a disappointment as 469 played their best match yet, hurdling better than any other robot on the field.

Actually Nobody hit 27 they caused the tip on their own.. I was the driver and they hit me as i was stationary agasint my allaince wall and they tipped over when they hit us at full speed and then got the pentaly for it..

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by nikeairmancurry

Actually Nobody hit 27 they caused the tip on their own.. I was the driver and they hit me as i was stationary agasint my allaince wall and they tipped over when they hit us at full speed and then got the pentaly for it..

Wrong, that match was a 'penalty free match.' Which I have no idea how - there were flags flying everywhere. I'd like to see the replay of just how they got tipped over, I suppose they'll be up online at some point. I wasn't watching that side of the field so I won't say anything, but to say the least, it was sad to see it happen.

[nikeairmancurry]

I swear i remember hearing the penelty.. but you could be right.. Yet i am sure that 27 feel over after hitting us fully extended.. for one it was my our robot that it hit and two it was right in front of me.. sad yes, but true so..

[Elgin Clock]

In the battle between arms (341 & 365) and launchers (103 & 272), the deciding factor was a robot that was neither an effective hurdler nor lapper. For the second year in a row, Chuck (84) played canny defense and avoided penalties to deny or delay their opponents scoring opportunities.

I honestly don't know how they didn't acquire more penalties for their "canny" actions. If only I was into conspiracy theory.

It truly boggles the mind though.
Their trend definitely didn't start in the finals either.
The semifinals were a large "gray area" with no penalties given for borderline shady moves for defense as well in my opinion.

[Danny McC]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

I honestly don't know how they didn't acquire more penalties for their "canny" actions. If only I was into conspiracy theory.

It truly boggles the mind though.
Their trend definitely didn't start in the finals either.
The semifinals were a large "gray area" with no penalties given for borderline shady moves for defense as well in my opinion.

I agree 100%

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

I honestly don't know how they didn't acquire more penalties for their "canny" actions. If only I was into conspiracy theory.

It truly boggles the mind though.
Their trend definitely didn't start in the finals either.
The semifinals were a large "gray area" with no penalties given for borderline shady moves for defense as well in my opinion.

Could you elaborate on what these shady moves were? It has been my experience that people are far overestimating how restrictive the rules are on defense. You can herd your opponents ball as much as you want, you can pin it as much as you want, and outside of their homezone you can push your opponents themselves around as much as you want, so long as it is within the bumper zone. If a red bot were to push a blue bot all the way across the field it would be fine so long as the blue bot doesn't have a trackball and isn't in their homezone.

The only thing I would like to say about this looking back feature is that we, team 910, managed to do more than simply feed 217 balls. In our last couple matches we managed to hurdle 3 - 4 times as well. Not the same level as 217 at all, but we weren't just the little feeder bot either. It wasn't so much that 217 carried the alliance as much as it was all three members of the alliance helped to carry it. It don't think we could have gotten as far as we did without all three of us working together.

No Atlanta for us, but hopefully we'll make a good showing in the off-season. See you all then, and good luck at Atlanta.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Could you elaborate on what these shady moves were? It has been my experience that people are far overestimating how restrictive the rules are on defense. You can herd your opponents ball as much as you want, you can pin it as much as you want, and outside of their homezone you can push your opponents themselves around as much as you want, so long as it is within the bumper zone. If a red bot were to push a blue bot all the way across the field it would be fine so long as the blue bot doesn't have a trackball and isn't in their homezone.

I would consider those all shady moves that have been played out by teams this year.

You are not making any friends on the field (or off) when you try any of these.
Maybe to some teams this isn't what it's all about, and that trophy means more than the spirit of the game.

Accidental tipping, or something like that is different, especially when drivers come over and apologize for actions like that even after a match no matter who won or lost. GP in effect! w00t!

But the above mentioned other actions, and thus finding loopholes in rules on the field won't make you popular in the long run.

That's all I'm trying to say.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

I would consider those all shady moves that have been played out by teams this year.

You are not making any friends on the field (or off) when you try any of these.
Maybe to some teams this isn't what it's all about, and that trophy means more than the spirit of the game.

Accidental tipping, or something like that is differentr, especially when drivers come over and apologize for actions like that even after a match no matter who won or lost.

Finding loopholes in rules on the field won't make you popular in the long run.

That's all I'm trying to say.

I would in no way support any behavior that results in damage to the field or robots or anything that goes against the rules, but anything else goes(ok, not explicitly anything else, but I think people know what I mean). Pinning the ball, herding it around, or pushing your opponents are all perfectly valid defensive strategies, and in many cases are not only a good way to win, but the only way to win.

Imagine this, you are on a team that has two lap bots and one launcher. You just happen to be on the field against 1114, 217, and 27. The only chance you have of winning, guaranteed, is to pin both of their balls, and to never let them hurdle, ever. It is a tenacious form of play in the face of an overwhelmingly superior offensive team, and I doubt a single one of those teams would fault you for such a strategy, and would instead congratulate you on a game well played.

Moreover it is absolutely inspiring to me to see a team do this because it shows a tenacity and willingness to compete that is essential to gracious professionalism. Being gracious means following the rules, but being a professional means attempting to win while following those rules. We in FIRST often seem to forget the professionalism part of GP. Losing a match you could have won because some people decided they didn't like your entirely legal and nondestructive strategy is downright unprofessional.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I would in no way support any behavior that results in damage to the field or robots or anything that goes against the rules, but anything else goes(ok, not explicitly anything else, but I think people know what I mean). Pinning the ball, herding it around, or pushing your opponents are all perfectly valid defensive strategies, and in many cases are not only a good way to win, but the only way to win.

Imagine this, you are on a team that has two lap bots and one launcher. You just happen to be on the field against 1114, 217, and 27. The only chance you have of winning, guaranteed, is to pin both of their balls, and to never let them hurdle, ever. It is a tenacious form of play in the face of an overwhelmingly superior offensive team, and I doubt a single one of those teams would fault you for such a strategy, and would instead congratulate you on a game well played.

Moreover it is absolutely inspiring to me to see a team do this because it shows a tenacity and willingness to compete that is essential to gracious professionalism. Being gracious means following the rules, but being a professional means attempting to win while following those rules. We in FIRST often seem to forget the professionalism part of GP. Losing a match you could have won because some people decided they didn't like your entirely legal and nondestructive strategy is downright unprofessional.

I agree with this to a certain extent. Following the rules in playing defense is playing the game. If another alliance is outright a better offensive team, your only strategy is to play legal defense. With the right defense put on by good teams, ANY alliance can be beaten. Its been proven in matches both seeding and elim at various regionals in various weeks.
The agreed upon "best" robot(s) dont always win. Its always the best alliance that plays as a team with great strategy, with either outstanding or good robots.

[Ashley Weed]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

I honestly don't know how they didn't acquire more penalties for their "canny" actions. If only I was into conspiracy theory.

... ouch