We was robbed!!!

[Ed Sparks]

Originally Posted by Steve W

... FIRST is NOT perfect!!!! Refs are NOT perfect!!! Judges are NOT perfect!!!! Field controls are NOT perfect!!!! but most of all WE ARE NOT PERFECT!!!! ...

Amen brother .......

If anyone has a good idea for a "perfect control system" along with "flawless scoring", please submit it to FIRST ASAP. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE on that field is trying to do the best they can and do the right thing. I suggest YOU volunteer next year as a Ref and get a little taste of what it takes to make the right call EVERY time. I've done this, it's tough!

To say we somehow "robbed" you is completely wrong. I'm sorry it happened, but I believe the right call was made and I think if it had happened to your allience, you would have pleaded the same case for a re-match.

It's over, done, let's move on and be positive. Next year maybe everything will be perfect.

[Kris Verdeyen]

I was the field announcer at Bayou. I can verify that the red alliance there had a strong autonomous, and that none of them moved during the hybrid period of the match in question. I remember finding it odd. After that match, and after being prompted by the red alliance, the FTA (FIRST representative) inspected the field equipment, and either immediately before or during the third match, decided with the referees that there had been a field malfunction.

I was informed after the third match, but before announcing the scores, and I announced it as soon as I was told. This was all done in good faith. The FTA and head referee had no interest in any of the teams involved, and Ed Sparks, the IFI rep, recused himself from the discussion as soon as he could.

The situation sucked for everyone, but everyone acted professionally, and did what they thought was right. In my opinion, the best was made of a bad situation.

[Chris Herold]

Well, something similar happened to us in Portland. The refs made a mistake and counted the penalties against our alliance on the other one. They were mistaken and we thought we would be in the semis. They revised it and gave the game to the other alliance. Our alliance accepted that! It was just right! Unfortunately, our robot broke down and we lost the third match! Whatever shaking hands and being happy! Celebrate FIRST! Where is your GRACIOUS PROFESSIONALISM? I think we did the right thing, went home, improved our robot and won in Seattle! Just imagine how you would have felt on the other side.
The fact is a malfunction on one side of the field is a big disadvantage and requires a replay! I think that's a rather logical consequence!

Chris

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Originally Posted by jackthepumking

In New Orleans at the bayou regional during the third consecutive match in the quarterfinals between the two alliances chosen by team 499 and Team 34 there was an alleged autonomous Malfunction with the red alliance, causing the refs to order a Redo on match on Match 2, in which The Blue Alliance totally Creamed the Red alliance. We then replayed the match as Match 4 (even though we had already thought we were moving on to the semifinals) and lost... Now, Are we the only ones out there in this known universe who think that The whole replay situation was a load of bull?
If anything the Refs could have stopped Match 2 right there and then when the Malfunction occurred, why wait until the END of MATCH 3?!?
BESIDES, even IF the red alliance DID score those autonomous Points they STILL wouldn't have came anywhere near winning the match!!

WE WAS ROBBED

Atleast your game got to be replayed.
I just watched our QF Match 1 at GLR and there were 2 balls in a row that we scored that were not counted.
Its just something that happens when u got human scoring tallys.

[coldfusion1279]

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak

i don't think we got robbbed, even though some may se it that way. It showed 1279's inncossistancy, of their grippers.

Can I ask that we not point fingers? Even if that it wasn't the intention of the statement. We tried our best that is our team cares about.

Also, we (the losing alliance of that match) are fighting an uphill battle in this argument. The only responses you will receive from that post are about how FIRST isnt about winning and the FIRST refs are all volunteers. This is all 100% true.

Something similar happened in our favor in NJ in 2005, and we wound up winning the regional, so we understand. Take a step back, take a deep breath, and congratulate the winning alliances, you can't say they haven't earned it.

Sure it was a tough break, but roll with the punches eh?

[Zyik]

There will always be problems with the field. Even if there was a "foolproof" method of scoring, not only are the refs human, so are we. We're always finding scapegoats to blame things on. The field is one of many that we use to explain why we lost the match.

Also, the thread title implies that something physical, like a laptop or a tool, was taken from you. It also implies that your English teacher should give you some more grammar homework, but I digress.

[RMiller]

Originally Posted by Steve W

FIRST is NOT perfect!!!! Refs are NOT perfect!!! Judges are NOT perfect!!!! Field controls are NOT perfect!!!! but most of all WE ARE NOT PERFECT!!!!

Exactly, I happen to know a match where hybrid period was misscored. It ended up changing the winner of that match and ultimately the seeding of some the top teams at that regional. People were unsure about it, but it was not brought up until well after the fact. In fact, I was not able to confirm it until I got a chance to look at the video archives.
Having been a ref for one regional I can say that I was not perfect in calling penalties. I tried my best to be consistent and accurate and when in doubt to give a team the benefit of the doubt, but I am sure there are things I missed and things that might have actually been wrong. In addition from that regional and another I was at, I can say that occasionally things don't work. Sometimes it is actually your robot, sometimes it is field control.

[Chris Fultz]

Please try to avoide identifying specific teams and specific robots if you are going to talk negatively.

Regarding the match replay, and the statement that the autonomous points would not have made a difference, there is no way to know that. Had hybrid worked for the other alliance, there would have been 3 robots in different places on the field when the operator controlled period started. This would have changed robot to robot interaction, scoring, opportunities for penalties, and so on. There is no way to know all of those interactions and the effect on the match, so the only fair answer is a replay.

I am confident that every team that has been involved more than a few years could identify a particular match where they felt they were "robbed" - but they could probably also identify just as many where they received a "gift". Stuff happens, and it is dealt with as fairly as possible.

[Craig Roys]

Originally Posted by Mike Martus

The Game is complex..... The electronics are complex.......then add complex robots that often have a mind of their own and do strange things at strange times, and you have with 41 regionals many opportunities for stuff to go wrong.

It is very easy to blame this or blame that.. it is easy to pop up video to "Prove" you were right and "They were wrong........ it is even harder to accept that this is only a celebration of all the hard work a team puts in or shall we say all the GREAT learning the students will enjoy for ever.....

Point is step back.... enjoy the accomplishments... enjoy the moment that many, many others cannot...

I know easy to say..... hard to do, but guys, really, we MUST!

Very well put. Our competetive natures tend to get us caught up in the moment, but after all is said and done everyone needs to take a step back and enjoy their accomplishments. I think you'll find that if you look back on all you've done this past season, you'll be very proud of your accomplishments. Remember what FIRST is ultimately all about.

[rfolea]

Originally Posted by Ed Sparks

Amen brother .......

If anyone has a good idea for a "perfect control system" along with "flawless scoring", please submit it to FIRST ASAP. EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE on that field is trying to do the best they can and do the right thing. I suggest YOU volunteer next year as a Ref and get a little taste of what it takes to make the right call EVERY time. I've done this, it's tough!

It's over, done, let's move on and be positive. Next year maybe everything will be perfect.

Hmmm... There seems to be a trend here ... Everywhere Ed goes there is a major field malfunction ... Hmmm...

(sorry Ed, couldn't resist .. <grin>)

[meaubry]

Well said by everyone that has pointed out that nothing is flawless -
but most importantly though -

I wish everyone would take a moment and remind themselves that the ONLY people really getting "robbed", are the students that are NOT even given the opportunity to experience FIRST.

Mike Aubry

[MoeMom]

Our students (all ya'll- not just the green ones) make me truly proud on a regular basis. But this thread reminds me of one particular time.

Last year at the Championship a MOE parent was volunteering to queue on the field where MOE competed. The head ref told him- not realizing he was a team parent- how impressed she was when she ruled against the MOE students who had asked her to review a call because they spoke well and respectfully to her and accepted her decision in a really tough break.

I figured that was another big win for FIRST.

It's easier for me to see this. I've got years of FIRST experience to balance on, but there's lots of kinds of winning because there are lots of goals to work for. The scoreboard is just one.

And off season events are fun just for this reason...friendly rematches!

[Ed Sparks]

Originally Posted by rfolea

Hmmm... There seems to be a trend here ... Everywhere Ed goes there is a major field malfunction ... Hmmm...

(sorry Ed, couldn't resist .. <grin>)

I've been banned from volunteering on any field at the championship .......
It's back to the pits as a lead inspector for me....

See y'all soon.

[DCA Fan]

One of my friends, who is a referee for AYSO soccer put it this way.

Ask a group of parents how many of their teams have lost because of a referee, and most of them will raise their hands. Ask the same group how many of their teams have WON because of a referee, and none of them will raise their hands.

As a referee, we really can't win hearts and minds. We just have to be fair and judge everyone as equally as possible. I'm sorry that the original poster felt "robbed," but in every attempt to make sure rules are followed according to what's written, sometimes you'll have to take a call against you. Sometimes a call will go in your favor. Just remember two things. One, it's not about the winning, it's about the learning. And two, statistically, if an error is made against you in some round, chances are, it has been made against your opponents in another, and it'll even out in the end.

[jackthepumking]

Originally Posted by jackthepumking

In New Orleans at the bayou regional during the third consecutive match in the quarterfinals between the two alliances chosen by team 499 and Team 34 there was an alleged autonomous Malfunction with the red alliance, causing the refs to order a Redo on match on Match 2, in which The Blue Alliance totally Creamed the Red alliance. We then replayed the match as Match 4 (even though we had already thought we were moving on to the semifinals) and lost... Now, Are we the only ones out there in this known universe who think that The whole replay situation was a load of bull?
If anything the Refs could have stopped Match 2 right there and then when the Malfunction occurred, why wait until the END of MATCH 3?!?
BESIDES, even IF the red alliance DID score those autonomous Points they STILL wouldn't have came anywhere near winning the match!!

WE WAS ROBBED

I just want to appoligize for what was written In the mist of the fustration I realized that I was not showing gracious professionalism. I understand that it is no ones fault for the mistake things just happen, and no one is perfect. And I am not going to lie these were really good matches. So once again I am very sorry and thank you for the responses!!!