BattleBots IQ

[BSMFIRST]

I just received this email (notice the mandatory control system is also by Innovation First):
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AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE FROM BATTLEBOTS INC.

Yes! It is finally here! Battlebots is proud to announce the first ever
BattleBots High School Competition!

Here's the info we have for you now: (subject to changes)
* The Competition will be held in Orlando, Florida at Universal Studios on
March 29th & 30th, 2002.

* Check-in and Safety/Tech inspection dates to be announced.

* The Competition will be for students 12-18 years of age - Each Team must
have an adult guardian/advisor.

* There will be one (1) weight class - Middleweight robots only (see
standard BattleBots Technical Regulations for details - available here
http://www.battlebots.com/bnc_rules.asp).

* All entrants MUST use the Isaac16 or Isaac32 control system from IFI
Robotics (http://www.ifirobotics.com) to conform with safety requirements.

* We are working on getting special rates for hotels and will have more
information shortly.

* Look for more explicit details in the comings months.

We are very excited about this upcoming event. We are also looking into the
possibility of having regional competitions in the Summer of 2002 for
further BattleBots High School Competitions.

I would very much appreciate all of you sending me your names and addresses.
We will determine where to hold future regional competitions depending on
the feedback we get from the various regions of the country. This is the
beginning of something really neat and you can be a part of the premiere
competition.

I look forward to hearing from all of you as soon as possible as we need to
lay the groundwork NOW. If you think there is a good possibility of your
team attending the Orlando Competition, please let me know as we will have
to limit the number of teams for the premiere event.

Stay tuned and keep in touch!

Sincerely,

BattleBots Inc.
Attn: Nola Garcia, Education Director
nola@battlebots.com

[David Kelly]

hmmm...



i know where my heart is and always will be. it is in FIRST!!

[Carolyn Duncan]

I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I think BB IQ is going to get a large portion of it's competitors from people who are dissatisfied with the new qualifications for nats. I won't be ther but I think many others will and who can blame them? It's bigger and I think it will pull on BB and be able to grow adn expand to fit it's need. I don't agree with destroying the robots but if BB is ready to take a step that FIRST is not, then they will gain and we will lose.

[FIRST Fan]

Please don't try to pretend your little IQ whatever event is for kids or for noble reasons. I have no problem with battlebots as a business, but when you post to FIRST teams trying to LEACH off of FIRST for "customers" - which is all they are to you (they may have fooled you by giving you the title “education director”, when in reality your “corporation” is making a profit off of students & schools), you should be ashamed.

FIRST exists to inspire and help kids - your competition is a well concealed and integrity lacking event looking to PROFIT off of kids. The day you hold these competitions as a non-profit, then try to influence FIRST teams. Until them, show a little class, and don’t try to infect the FIRST competition with the bad ideals, bad messages, and profit goals of Battlebots. Please let FIRST be what it is without dragging it down to the depths of your "make money off of kids & schools" corporation.

I realize that there are those who care so much about making money that they will do anything, even try to make it off of kids & schools – but can’t you find better ways to make a profit? While FIRST is truly the Olympics of Academic Achievement, Battlebots is a nice little spectator event with all the use to society of a Family Feud episode between Baywatch and Americas Most Wanted.

Leave “impacting education”, and the “inspiration/motivation” of students to the numerous programs out there (not just FIRST, or FLL – but many others) who are noble & genuine in their quest to help students build a brighter future. Don’t belittle those organizations with your weak, dumbed down, insult to intelligence, WWF/XFL, 3rd class attempt to rip off FIRST to make a dime.
As passionate as I obviously am about this, this is not intended to be personal towards you (you probably really do care about education, just are being misguided by Vince McMahon or Don King). This is directed at your bosses and their corporation. Try to get customers from FIRST once your bosses are offering participants 2 million dollars in scholarships from universities (not TV companies) instead of pocketing 2 million (more, I'm sure) for their bank accounts.

[jrukes]

It's great to see an impassioned response SUPPORTING FIRST amongst this log jam of concern over "The EPCOT Invitational". I would like to present my opinion, too.

I remember earlier this summer that some teams, great ones in fact, mentioned having some FIRSTers compete in Battlebots to show "them" how a real robot is made. While I don't think a FIRSTer actually went out that minute and built a BBot over the summer, there are several current and former FIRST teams that compete in BB.

I can understand how some are against BB because of the "violence". Obviously, one robot destroying another robot could be compared to modern day gladiators.

As with every high school team, the students must come first. Otherwise, you are frauding the sponsors to fund your hobby. You have to learn what your team needs.

Are the students mature, smart young adults that need an intellectual challenge?

Are they young students that need a strong hand to guide them?

Do they need to learn the details of machine design or is a boost to their self-esteem more important?

If you find the answers, then you must ask "am I capable of giving this to them?"

Whether your team competes in FIRST or Battlebots, your are providing an experience to the students and to the adults. Each event has its strengths and weaknesses, but neither should be weakened so the other may succeed.

If we learn anything from the tragedy, I hope that it is to accept difference.

-Jason

[BSMFIRST]

Your fury is somewhat misdirected. I received that email from Nola Garcia who is working with Battlebots to run the new competition.
This has been a long running and heated debate (notice the almost religious fervor that eruprts?) and I won't feed the fire anymore--at least not now. But I will say that:

-Nola, the key person organizing this, has also done some HUGE work for FIRST in terms of organizing teams creating postseason competitions, etc. She is the nicest, most caring person on the face of this Earth (as you rightly predict.)

-Her "bosses", Greg Munson and Trey Roske of Battlebots, are pretty far from "Don King" and "Vince McMahon." You have to be familiar with them and BattleBots to understand this (and I know you are not.)

-The end result of this competition, besides some beaten robots and insanely-enthused childeren, will be tremendously POSITIVE and so much the same as Dean's ultimate goal.

I posted the email because it (very obviously) would interest FIRST competitors. If they enter BB instead of FIRST they would do so because it would benefit their needs better. And if Battlebots is in fact so malicious and money-oriented then you'll be glad to get rid of them, RIGHT? Well you're actually wrong there because the former-FIRST competitors I have met in Battlebots have been absolutely exceptional people (a Woodie Flowers award winner is in that bunch.) They all love FIRST and Dean, but certain parts (like the time crunch, the cost, and the incredible difficulty of teaching AND building a bot at the same time) were too much.
Dan

[Pamela]

I feel that Battlebots IQ could be a wonderful program for many FIRST participants, but this posted letter I feel should not have been put up on this sight. If Battlebots was not run at the same time frame as FIRST I could understand pulling FIRSTers into it. But to basically put up and advertisement for a program which would require teams to choose one or the other on a website promoting FIRST is uncalled for. If the dates were late summer or early fall I'm sure many teams would be happy to have a robotic competition to compete in on the "off-season" Its not a matter of beating up robots or not, you will still learn from either program. But loyalties need to lie with FIRST right now so we can support there hard decisions about how to handle so many teams.

[BSMFIRST]

"But to basically put up and advertisement for a program which would require teams to choose one or the other on a website promoting FIRST is uncalled for. "


I don't see why you guys should be so threatened by my post.
First of all, I don't consider it an "advertisement." The nature of the email is purely informative; there was no effort to glamorize the event.
Pretty much everyone has heard of BBIQ and those interested would have asked for more info by now. I do agree that this should have been in the "Off Topic" folder and so that may have put some spin on my post. I'm sorry for that.

But do you also oppose other discussions about BBIQ? Are they not supposed to mention the actual event in that discussion so we can remain loyal to FIRST? And besides, there is limited room for teams at BBIQ as well--probably much, much tighter than at FIRST.

If, for some reason, someone sees this and switches their interest to Battlebots this year--then I see no reason to feel guilty. They'd switch because they felt they could reach their goals better doing BBIQ--if only for this year. So what's wrong with that? There are always choices in life, that's what makes it so great.
Dan

[Christina]

Originally posted by BSMFIRST
* The Competition will be held in Orlando, Florida at Universal Studios on
March 29th & 30th, 2002.
[/b]

Somehow it doesn't surprise me that it's at Universal Studios. And if anything, this is a reason Disney should keep on supporting FIRST. It makes me wonder, if Disney didn't do FIRST, do you think Universal would do Battlebots? (Unless Universal has an affiliation with comendy central or battlebots) You gotta love business competition.

~Christina

[Matt Ryan]

I was out canning the other day, and some guy said to me: "Oh, so you do Battlebots, right?".

That wouldn't bother me if he said that at first, but I had just gotten done explaining what FIRST is to him, its mission, and what we do as a team. But after all that explaining (5-10 minutes of conversation), to come out and say that just made me feel like crap.

If there is a conflict between FIRST and Battlebots (ratings and popular-wise), Battlebots will win that fight [popular-wise to the general public].

I'm just wondering why they picked dates so close to the FIRST Nationals, though.

[Jay Lundy]

Originally posted by BSMFIRST
The Competition will be held in Orlando, Florida at Universal Studios on March 29th & 30th, 2002.

Hm... apparently BattleBots forgot to notice the fact that March 29th is Good Friday, and March 31st is Easter. At least FIRST has an excuse (no way to shift the entire 4 month schedule one way or another), but BattleBots has only one event and one place (Orlando), while FIRST has 17 regionals over a 4 week period all over the nation.

Try scrounging up the money, building a robot, competing on 1 day (which if they run it like BattleBots, is the qualifying day where matches are not televised, are only 2 minutes, and have no field hazards), and then going home the very next day with a destroyed robot and $5000 down the drain.

Although I guess it is reassuring that no one bothered enough about the competition to check the dates.

[Nola Garcia]

My name is Nola Garcia and I have participated in FIRST for 6 years. I hold Dean Kamen in the highest regard as well as FIRST. Both of my sons have participated in FIRST and the older one just graduated from MIT with a degree in mechanical engineering. I do believe that FIRST was influencial in his choice of careers. My team was among the teams who took first place in the Galileo Division at Nationals. We have been recognized for our enthusiasm and love for FIRST. I am also the Education Director at BattleBots.
That being said I ask you this - can a person like chocolate ice cream AND strawberry ice cream at the same time? Does either flavor have to be bad for the other to be good? This year our students are participating in BOTH FIRST and BattleBots. There is no conflict for us. FIRST has always said that it is about Inspiration. They have inspired thousands of young people. BattleBots IQ has a high school robotics curriculum and is about Education. ( Teams that compete in BattleBots do not have to be part of the curriculum program).
One of the posts said that BattleBots is only about profit - well I have to set the record straight.
BattleBots IQ is a not for profit venture. The creators - Trey Roski and Greg Munson have poured hunderds of thousands of dollars of their own money into this. They wanted to take some of their profits from BattleBots and put them into a program that would benefit young people. The registration for Battlebots is LESS than $100
How, I ask that person, is that taking advantage of young students and schools? The high school teams will have the same opportunity to have their robots made into toys and receive the same profits as the regular Battlebots builders do. There is prize money as well as possible scholarship money available for the contestants as well.
As far as the dates for the competition and where it is held - the major television network needs a certain amount of footage by a certain date and the dates were chosen for that fact alone. Universal Studios has a facility that is perfect for the taping of the competition for the show. Universal is willing to discount thier prices for the teams as well as helping to find reasonable lodging for them.
When I first joined the FIRSt team I was impressed by Dean's mission to get kids excited about science, engineering and technology. I have seen first hand many kids as well as professionals like physicians, engineering professors, lawyers, major corporate executives from Intel and Microsoft get excited about BattleBots and it's effect of getting kids excited about engineering. Many have told me that they are happy to see so many young people designing robots as a result of watching the show. Physics teachers have told me that it is the first time in their career that they are popular with their students because they want explainations about how the robots work. Dean's dream of having engineers be heroes is alive because I see kids swarm Mark Setrakian, Jim Smentowski, Donald Hutson and others who are great engineers.
I leave you with this thought - My hope is that both FIRST and BattleBots prosper and draw to them the teams that will most benefit from what they have to offer.
I look forward to replies.
Thanks,
Nola Garcia
Team #59 ( FIRST)
Buddy Lee Stay in Your Seat ( Battlebots)

[ColleenShaver]

Well said Nola!

This is a long running, high-tempered debate on this forum usually and I have to agree-- does one have to be bad for the other to be good? No, of course not.

We all watch Battlebots, Robotica, Robot Wars, etc, etc. If they truly were "bad" we wouldn't be tuning in to those channels. The fact is that we share a common bond w/ every Battebot-er around: science. technology, robots, greasy hands, etc EXCITE us..

And if Battlebots were just in it for the money- who cares?! They are providing people a forum to get there technological abilities out in the spotlight and showing America that brains are cool too..

And if some kid watching at home decides to be an engineer from it.. or a team sees that BattlebotsIQ is a more cost efficient method of inspiration and brings there kids into that.. go for it.. because in the end.. if those same kids go to college and get degrees in a technical field.. Dean's mission and dream will be accomplished and they won't be any less of engineers than anyone here... So we should all be happy that Dean's dream of filling all the available technical jobs is happening w/ some helping hands from other groups.

And I think it was find to post the letter there, I was actually going to if someone hadn't already as an INFORMATIONAL thing in case people were interested in BBIQ.

And congrats to Nola and those putting together the program.. I've see some of the manual ideas and stuff like that, and it really looks like an admirable program.

[Jessica Boucher]

Now, I haven't taken psychology (yet, at least).....but my gut is telling me that this good robot competition/bad robot competition stuff is coming from fear. Fear of being undercut, fear of losing national corporate sponsorship, fear of never getting serious media coverage, fear of always hearing someone say "Oh, you mean <<insert robot TV show here>>?" when youre talking about FIRST...all stuff that has been ingrained into our heads since we joined into FIRST.

Im not saying that this is a bad thing, but we were always asked to help FIRST grow...our Chairmans award is based upon that simple idea. And theres nothing wrong with that either.

Seriously, I think part of the issue is that both competitions are going after the same target audience. Before, Battlebots was more of an adult thing, but with adding IQ into it, it is seen as threatening because it is infringing on an audience who FIRST once had spoken for on a national level.

And that's scary. I'd be scared too if come 10 years from now noone I knew could recognize what I spent the majority of my high school career doing.

But.....nothing to fear but fear itself, my dears. All we can do now is wait and see....as we all try to do the best we can.

Off topic PS - Nola, if you have any say in the matter, please educate the current female announcer! The woman from the first season was good.

[Jay Lundy]

Originally posted by Jessica Boucher
Off topic PS - Nola, if you have any say in the matter, please educate the current female announcer! The woman from the first season was good.

Um.. something tells me a background in engineering is NOT a requirement for being a battlebot announcer...

Though they do have Bill Nye.