GP? I think not.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Woody1458

I thought the exact same thing when I heard that at kickoff (I think it was Woody btw). I think student run teams are getting the point! FIRST is here in order to train our youth on how to run and advance the engineering world, when we run the world there will be no elders doing things for us. So I say make tools off limits for adults, and make the design phase student only. Please understand the difference between engineering and designing. Where Designing is deciding to use Akerman steering, and a launching robot. Engineering is what materials and methods to do these things.

It was Dave.

Design is a fundamental component of engineering.

Again, everyone is talking about the competition. While people are quick to point out that it's not about the robots to the teams who are ultra competitive, it's interesting that the same situation is happening here.

To you I also say it is not about the robot. Thus if it is not about the robot, it doesn't matter how other teams conduct their business, so long as they do it within the rules, and they find it inspiring.

If it was about the robots, and FIRST was all about making a competition for high school students to determine which students could make the best robot then yes, adult involvement would be something to worry about. We have clearly established that it is NOT about the robots though.

I'd like to point out a few years ago that Dean flat out said "FIRST is not fair". It's up to the teams who feel that way to do something to better themselves, or take their time and money elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Abwehr

The reality of the situation is that FIRST as an organization has taken sides on this issue.

Dave Lavery's comments during kickoffs are the most recent example. He completely alienated over half of FIRST by saying that. I understand the lesson that Woody and Dean originally wanted to teach, but thousands of other lessons have emerged beyond their dreams.

To categorically say that some of the unique things kids learn on student-dominated teams are any less important to inspiring students is, frankly, insulting.

I'd like to see the numbers backing your statement that half of FIRST was alienated. I for one applaud Dave's statement, and I have seen both sides of the equation.

For the record, if you were to go back and watch the video again, I believe Dave said something to the effect of "Hey, it's awesome that these students are capable of doing what they do--but imagine how much more they'd be able to do, and how much more they'd learn if they worked with professional engineers who have mountains of knowledge to share.

To categorically say that Dave's claims are inaccurate is exactly what you just said you were against.