GP? I think not.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Abwehr

Look at the responses to that comment from various others on this page. I'm not the only one who was offended. Or walk around the pits in Philadelphia or Chesapeake and tell me who you see working on most of the robots. It doesn't even matter if it was just one team that was offended by his comments. If you're coming back to kickoff, you obviously did something right, agree? Your kids got enough out of it to want to do it again. Why would you discourage that at all? At our local kickoff, a student-run team with a couple of teachers was sitting right in front of me. They looked like they had just been punched in the stomach when Dave said what he did.

And I've seen both sides of the equation too. From 2000-2002, Miss Daisy was built at an engineering facility. Our kids would go work there for a couple hours (I was one of them), but probably 80% of that machine was built by our mentors. From an engineering standpoint, what did I get out of that experience? Not much.

In 2003 we decided we had had enough, changed sponsorship, and teamed up with the local vo-tech high school to make something with more student involvement. We won a Chairman's Award, won Galileo, and haven't looked back.

Now, we are NOT 100% student built. We have several engineers (of which I am one) who help the kids all along the way. I agree with you that if money and resources were no object, an engineer-student partnership is the most effective sort of team. But when I walk by a pit with four engineers and no kids, I think they have swung too far the other way.

Dave never said that mentors have to do all the work. Dave said that teams who have NO mentors are missing out--this is undeniably true. It is my opinion that he was not trying to discourage any teams by devaluing their efforts.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Cory

Dave never said that mentors have to do all the work. Dave said that teams who have NO mentors are missing out--this is undeniably true. It is my opinion that he was not trying to discourage any teams by devaluing their efforts.

Ok, I do agree with this.

I sincerely do not think he was trying to devalue anyone's team, but it did come across that way to some people.

And I am 100% behind you - and everyone here - in that every team should have mentors to help guide the way if possible.

254 is one of the teams blessed with a cadre of amazing volunteers. My team is another. But many teams - and especially newer teams - simply aren't there yet.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Abwehr

254 is one of the teams blessed with a cadre of amazing volunteers. My team is another. But many teams - and especially newer teams - simply aren't there yet.

I'd like to take this opportunity to note that appearances can be deceiving.

254 does not have a single engineer. We have a third year physics teacher, and four college engineering students. None of us are over the age of 26.

While our team may appear to have tons of engineers, I'd be willing to bet that we have fewer mentors than the average FRC team.

Just another reason why you can't judge a book based on it's cover.

[Woody1458]

Originally Posted by Cory

I'd like to take this opportunity to note that appearances can be deceiving.

254 does not have a single engineer. We have a third year physics teacher, and four college engineering students. None of us are over the age of 26.

While our team may appear to have tons of engineers, I'd be willing to bet that we have fewer mentors than the average FRC team.

Just another reason why you can't judge a book based on it's cover.

Not to dwell on the subject, but since about 3-4 weeks of your season are spent designing (I think you told me that at SVR), how many engineers does 968 have?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Woody1458

Not to dwell on the subject, but since about 3-4 weeks of your season are spent designing (I think you told me that at SVR), how many engineers does 968 have?

6-8, all or almost all either in college or barely out of it, IIRC.

[waialua359]

Cory's example of what their team is comprised of is a perfect example of how amazing this team can year after year, be successful, despite drastic changes in leadership back from when Mr. Jason Morella was the lead teacher to Cory and EJ folks. Heck, EJ was just a student when we all first started going to SVR in 2000.
Look at Travis at 968. I was talking to him about a robot from 115 back in 2001 and he looked at me and said he was the driver THAT year for the team.
These former students, now college students, is the perfect example of how a FIRST team has impacted students to the point where they have come full-circle.
Our team has a 4 year former Robotics student who is now our main welder mentor. He makes the most beautiful welds. Check out our bot! Even our teacher who taught him says he cant do better.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Woody1458

Not to dwell on the subject, but since about 3-4 weeks of your season are spent designing (I think you told me that at SVR), how many engineers does 968 have?

Zero. They have a handful of college students as well.