Winning Multiple Regionals

[Kate00]

Originally Posted by DanTod97

I just think its rediculous that people actually consider teams going through and winning sometimes three seperate regionals, what on earth is going through their heads as they take that third win? I just dont see how that can be helpful or inspiring in anyway, even if you want to argue that it can be inspiring to some people, I think there are much better ways to inspire people than to dominate them after completing 6 weeks of hard work. Its just unnecessary.

Edit: this is almost a seperate argument, its unnecessary weather it has to do with student mentor ratio or not.

What do you propose teams who have signed up to go to more than one regional and win their first one do? Throw matches so that they will lose? Not preform up to their ability, dragging all the teams that they are allied with down? Regionals are not won by one robot - they are won by an alliance of three. Are you proposing that if a team ends up in an elimination alliance in their second regional, having won their first, they should let the other two teams on their alliance down by intentionally losing matches, to let three other "deserving teams" as opposed to themselves and the two other robots on their alliance?

Maybe what's going through their head when they win their second or third regional is "we're so glad we helped these other two deserving teams on our alliance qualify for championships - we're going to have so much fun there."

Or, are you proposing that the team who won their first regional decline to participate in the other regionals they are signed up for, limiting their students to only one event, rather than the two or three they have paid for, have been excited for so that they can meet and work with new teams, and have been working towards all build season?

Maybe what's going through their head when they win their second or third regional is "wow, we're so glad that these students and sponsors and supporters who couldn't come to our first regional got a chance to see us perform to the best of our ability."

Somehow I don't see how either of these are a better option than a team winning multiple regionals.

[Rich Kressly]

Even if I'm an individual who chooses to dislike a "dominating team at a third regional," can I control the fact they are registered for the same event as my team attends? No, I can't. Even if I wish it was against the rules for them to be there, is it? No, it's not.

Can I control how I measure success with my team? Yes, I can. Should it all be about winning matches and events? No, not even close. Are you listening to your founders on this one? I hope so.

47, 1114, 1503, 1024 are model organizations. Multiple Chairman's Awards and a slew of other accomplishments are represented there. The cool thing is they're all rather generous and share quite a bit. So, in the end I don't get the point at all. What is there to be upset about?

[DanTod97]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

To play devils advocate, if the other team were equally deserving, they would beat the 3 time winner. Being good does not mean that you should have to have less fun. What you're saying is that if you bring a robot that doesn't win to 3 regionals, that it's fine, but if you bring a robot capable of winning, you should only go to 1 competition. Does that make sense in your mind? Because to me, it doesn't compute to punish success by limiting their allowed participation... Or would you suggest that they intentionally not win? Please clarify whether you're suggesting punishing talent or encouraging match throwing for teams who excel

So because they can, they should. because thats apparently the way FIRST does things.

[Beth Sweet]

Originally Posted by DanTod97

So because they can, they should. because thats apparently the way FIRST does things.

Yes, if you are capable and competent, you should make effort to the best of your ability. Doing anything less is poor work ethic.

[DanTod97]

Originally Posted by Beth Sweet

Yes, if you are capable and competent, you should make effort to the best of your ability. Doing anything less is poor work ethic.

And thats just where I disagree, they have already done they're best during build season.

[ruddy]

Teams should work at being more competitive than having FIRST try to make everything level. Instead of saying they shouldn't be allowed to dominate that many regionals, maybe someone should make a robot that will STOP them from dominating. This is how competition works, it makes you better.

[DanTod97]

Originally Posted by ruddy

Teams should work at being more competitive than having FIRST try to make everything level. Instead of saying they shouldn't be allowed to dominate that many regionals, maybe someone should make a robot that will STOP them from dominating. This is how competition works, it makes you better.

Well thats supposedly one of the goals every build season, but its easier said than done.

[Beth Sweet]

Originally Posted by DanTod97

And thats just where I disagree, they have already done they're best during build season.

Past this I'll bring it to PM discussion, but there's more to FIRST than the build season. Things such as strategy, scouting, on field driving... the all demand excellence. Strategy is one of my favorite parts of FIRST, it makes the kids think more than any other aspect. Heck, it makes the adults think!

If there were not value in both parts, if there were not "their best" being demanded during the competition season, it would not exist.

If we want to discuss this out more, PM me.

[adman]

I don't think any of us expected to win the regionals we went to.
Being a winner means you probably know how many things must
work in the right way at the right time with the right alliances
on both sides of the glass to make it happen.

If there is such a thing as a "super team" you must means the ones
like 1114 and 1024. Walk into our pit and ask for Qbranch and he won't
stop telling you about how to fix your autonomous. He will have a laptop
under his arm and be in your pits right until the last call before our
matches. I have seen 1114 at Midwest completely take a team
under their wing to help them in every way.

There are no super teams just good people having great things
happening to them. Believe me Karthik and his team as well as ours
can look back on a lot of good fortune to make the three in a row happen.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by DanTod97

And thats just where I disagree, they have already done they're best during build season.

Whoa, there! So what you're saying is do your best during build season and then STOP? What message is that sending?

If I interpreted what you just said correctly, then I don't know what to say other than: is that professional? Or gracious?

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by DanTod97

So because they can, they should. because thats apparently the way FIRST does things.

I'm really confused. Say a team wins their first regional, what would you have them do? Not attend any further events? Stop trying? I'd like to hear your proposed solution.

[DanTod97]

Originally Posted by EricH

Whoa, there! So what you're saying is do your best during build season and then STOP? What message is that sending?

If I interpreted what you just said correctly, then I don't know what to say other than: is that professional? Or gracious?

I was just making a point that if there comes a point when youve done your best, and youve proved your capable, beating a dead horse maybe? something along those lines.

[Jeff K.]

Originally Posted by DanTod97

So because they can, they should. because thats apparently the way FIRST does things.

If people had this kind of attitude, would science or technology ever advance? If you can do it, then why not do it? You are only as limited as your will and efforts.

About teams winning more than one regional...
Teams choose regionals before they ever start building their robots. They do not choose regionals just to rub it in everyone else's face that their robot is better. A champion team is a team that competes to the best of its ability and performs excellently in the heat of competition.

Should a team throw a regional after they have won a previous regional? NO That's just unsportsman.

I am sorry that you may feel like you were ripped off of a champion win because a team there was better. Instead of complaining about that team, looking towards next year and seeing how you can try doing what they did to make your robot better would be more beneficial. It's good if a team has three regional championships. Three times as many teams get to see what a winning robot is made of and get inspired by that.

And yes...ANYTHING is easier said than done. It is those than stand up and take the challenge who are on their way to being champions.

Good luck and hope your next season is better.

[DanTod97]

Originally Posted by Jeff K.

I am sorry that you may feel like you were ripped off of a champion win because a team there was better.

Again dont know where this is coming from.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by DanTod97

I was just making a point that if there comes a point when youve done your best, and youve proved your capable, beating a dead horse maybe? something along those lines.

No, if you are signed up to attend an event doing your best requires you to compete in that event to the best of your ability. Doing your best does not have a line where it is okay to stop, doing your best is not something you do when you feel like, doing your best is not something you do because others are watching. Doing your best is a way of life, it cannot be checked at the door.

If 1114 were at MN instead of GTR this past weekend and they left the A-team at home or put them up in the stands because they had already won 2 regionals I would have been disappointed and embarrassed. I would have been disappointed because everyone in that arena would be missing out on the opportunity to be inspired by the "simplicity on the other side of complexity" exhibited by their machine. I would be embarrassed (and maybe even angry) because such a team's respect for the level of their competitors at the event is so low that they feel their winning is a foregone conclusion unless they bench the "starters".

I fully expect any team that shows up to any regional I am at next year to compete to the best of their ability whether they have already won 2 or 3 regionals that year or if they are looking for the first in their team's history.