Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?

[midway78224]

last year when we uncrate wed. night u get to unload as much as possible to put in ur pits. u are allowed 3 members like if it was in a regional on the first day of competition. u are allowed to uncrate ur robot and set up ur batteries to let them charge overnight if u so choose. thats wat i remeber last yr. when i went to uncrate at the championship.

[petek]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

Like I said from MY PAST EXPERIENCE, you could bring in all of your stuff

I do not know if it will change this year or not, but it seems to me like that would not be advantageous because it clears a lot of "traffic" out of the way that shows up on thursday morning.

Except that the purpose of Wed night uncrating is to get the crates out so that there's room for all that stuff. Last year teams were limited to what the three people could bring in one trip.

[Jon236]

While we haven't yet seen the guidance from FIRST about pit access on Wednesday for this year, it is clear that the intent of Wed evening access is to get the robots out of the crates, in order to allow unfettered team access on Thursday.

I would therefore plan on uncrating your robots, plugging in your battery chargers, and going to the FIRST Robotics Conference, which will be starting Wednesday evening at 5:00 pm.

Looking forward to seeing all of you there!

[Ben Piecuch]

I'm not sure when FIRST posted this, but the 2008 Essential Information document is now online.

The Wednesday Night Load In rules are VERY different from last year. You are NOT allowed to bring in carts, wagons, trolleys, tools, etc... Please read this document prior to showing up with your entire tool set.

Having volunteered during Load In, I can tell you that many teams have tried to take advantage of what one would consider "hand carried." While I'm not a huge fan of these new load in rules, we'll be armed with just a battery tote and a cordless drill to open the crate. See you all in ATL.

Bengineer

[Don Wright]

Darn it. Oh well...

[Pat Fairbank]

Originally Posted by Ben Piecuch

The Wednesday Night Load In rules are VERY different from last year. You are NOT allowed to bring in carts, wagons, trolleys, tools, etc... Please read this document prior to showing up with your entire tool set.

I can't really envision a safe way of bringing in a team's collection of batteries and chargers for the purposes of plugging them in without using a cart - do you suppose an exception will be made for "battery carts"?

[cziggy343]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

I can't really envision a safe way of bringing in a team's collection of batteries and chargers for the purposes of plugging them in without using a cart - do you suppose an exception will be made for "battery carts"?

idk... but our battery charger is connected to our pit... i guess we have something to do tuesday night

[Anne Shade]

By the way,

This is NOT the same Essential Event Information document that was posted late last night. The original document did not mention anything about carts not being allowed. I happened to have a printed version of the document I read last night sitting in front of me. The version now on the FIRST website is different. I have not compared the entire document yet. I hope everyone reads the new version.

I just wish we didn't have to have the same discussions every year about all this. FIRST has tried for several years now to not allow teams to bring in things during early unloading but have always been convinced to change their minds after teams voiced their safety and logistical concerns. Do we always have to re-learn the same lesson the hard way each year???

[Andy Brockway]

They changed this today after 8:00 AM. I also have the other version that I downloaded when I got into work.

I cannot imagine the line up of vehicles waiting to turn off Northside Ave on Thursday morning. I think the que will start sometime early in the AM.

If it is raining on Thursday morning, how early we will have access to the building?

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by Anne Shade

I just wish we didn't have to have the same discussions every year about all this. FIRST has tried for several years now to not allow teams to bring in things during early unloading but have always been convinced to change their minds after teams voiced their safety and logistical concerns. Do we always have to re-learn the same lesson the hard way each year???

We have to have this discussion every year, because every year teams push violently against the rules until they break. For example, last year the rules were pretty darn clear: "three people can enter through the gates one time, and bring in one load of material to leave in their pit. They can uncrate the robot and plug in battery chargers, and leave their materials to be assembled in the morning." Pretty simple and straightforward.

So what did multiple teams do? They "engineered loopholes" to circumvent the rules. They had three people enter the pits. Then they had multiple team members line up outside the entrance, and passed load after load after load of carts, batteries, tool chests, pits construction materials, their kitchen sinks, and their mother's kitchen sinks through the entrance to the three anxious team members on the other side. They created havoc for the traffic flow, endangered themselves and others as they ran back and forth with heavy loads in their arms, and effectively blocked the way when the Sheppard Services folks were trying to remove crates from the pits. They did what was clearly against the intent of the access rules, and then used the classic "well, the rules didn't say we couldn't do that" as the justification

The rule this year is pretty clear. And I am willing to bet that it won't be changed. Is it going to be a little more difficult? Perhaps. But all the teams that "engineered loopholes" in last year's rules have no one but themselves to blame.

-dave

[Anne Shade]

Originally Posted by dlavery

We have to have this discussion every year, because every year teams push violently against the rules until they break. For example, last year the rules were pretty darn clear: "three people can enter through the gates one time, and bring in one load of material to leave in their pit. They can uncrate the robot and plug in battery chargers, and leave their materials to be assembled in the morning." Pretty simple and straightforward.

So what did multiple teams do? They "engineered loopholes" to circumvent the rules. They had three people enter the pits. Then they had multiple team members line up outside the entrance, and passed load after load after load of carts, batteries, tool chests, pits construction materials, their kitchen sinks, and their mother's kitchen sinks through the entrance to the three anxious team members on the other side. They created havoc for the traffic flow, endangered themselves and others as they ran back and forth with heavy loads in their arms, and effectively blocked the way when the Sheppard Services folks were trying to remove crates from the pits. They did what was clearly against the intent of the access rules, and then used the classic "well, the rules didn't say we couldn't do that" as the justification

The rule this year is pretty clear. And I am willing to bet that it won't be changed. Is it going to be a little more difficult? Perhaps. But all the teams that "engineered loopholes" in last year's rules have no one but themselves to blame.

-dave

Dave,

I understand that a few teams have broken the rules the last few years but those teams were in the minority. Why is it that the rest of us have to pay for the unprofessionalism of a few? No matter how restrictive the rules are, there will always be the few who find a way to get around them. The issue is more about the ability of FIRST to enforce the rules they set.

My other issue with all this is the fact that teams are finding out a week before the Championship that this major change has occured. Teams have been planning for weeks (if not months) based on the documentation that has been available since January and was used during all the regionals which allowed teams to bring in their pit materials during early load in. Why is this "rule" change being done just for Champs? Many teams violated the rules during week 1 of Regionals but the rule wasn't changed during the season... Why was this not published earlier to allow teams to prepare accordingly?

[thefro526]

I've un-crated the last two years. We've always gotten the robot out and on the cart, got the batteries charging, and pushed the crate into the isle to get picked up. we usually leave everything neat an organized on the table to be later sorted when we're allowed to set up the pit.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

I can't really envision a safe way of bringing in a team's collection of batteries and chargers for the purposes of plugging them in without using a cart - do you suppose an exception will be made for "battery carts"?

THEY WILL NOT ALLOW BATTERY CARTS!! From what I was told when I called FIRST HQ today, they said NOTHING on wheels will be allowed in on Wednesday night. I questioned this because we are walking from the Marriott with 8 batteries, chargers and our drills, and were hoping to at least put our batteries in a rolling suitcase.

While Dave seems to be against the teams "engineering" ways around things, Im certainly not going to break my back & arms carrying batteries 8 blocks through Atlanta, so expect some sort of hiking backpack or something to be coming in with me. Either that or maybe we will just overload the circuits at the Marriott Wednesday night

FIRST told me this was actually due to safety concerns, which I do remember seeing last year. I didnt see the bucket brigade of stuff that went in, by some teams, but I definitely see the safety issue. But I would think a simple Cart with nothing taller than 3 feet could allow teams to safely carry things in. Oh well leave it to the "ban everything" mindset.

Im actually more worried about what is going to happen Thursday morning when teams are trying to pile all their stuff into the pits along with 40 people from each team. Now THAT sounds like a safety hazard. Everyone watch your toes & wear hardhats!

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by dlavery

We have to have this discussion every year, because every year teams push violently against the rules until they break. For example, last year the rules were pretty darn clear: "three people can enter through the gates one time, and bring in one load of material to leave in their pit. They can uncrate the robot and plug in battery chargers, and leave their materials to be assembled in the morning." Pretty simple and straightforward.

So what did multiple teams do? They "engineered loopholes" to circumvent the rules. They had three people enter the pits. Then they had multiple team members line up outside the entrance, and passed load after load after load of carts, batteries, tool chests, pits construction materials, their kitchen sinks, and their mother's kitchen sinks through the entrance to the three anxious team members on the other side. They created havoc for the traffic flow, endangered themselves and others as they ran back and forth with heavy loads in their arms, and effectively blocked the way when the Sheppard Services folks were trying to remove crates from the pits. They did what was clearly against the intent of the access rules, and then used the classic "well, the rules didn't say we couldn't do that" as the justification

The rule this year is pretty clear. And I am willing to bet that it won't be changed. Is it going to be a little more difficult? Perhaps. But all the teams that "engineered loopholes" in last year's rules have no one but themselves to blame.

-dave

Having volunteered at the main gate to the pits for the Wednesday load-in last year, and I can probably count on one hand how many teams did the above. If making the entire load in process more efficient was the reason behind the new anti-cart rule, simply informing people of the existing rules would have been much more beneficial.

I had to explain to more teams how the load-in works (three people only, they all need wristbands*, stay on plastic, need safety glasses, don't work on robots) at the door of the pits than I can shake a stick at. And that was a much larger problem to the efficiency of the load in procedure than the few teams who got creative with their load-in process.

Having two or three more volunteers outside the entrance of the GWCC to directly explain to every team entering the rules before they entered would have been a lot simpler (and less stressful option) for all the teams attending. As of right now, Thursday morning is going to be a zoo at the GWCC, and I feel sorry for the volunteers who have to manage that.

* Out of all of these, this was the biggest impairment. Most people would just try to walk in, and that was what really slowed the process down as they all had to move out of the way, and find somewhere on the limited plastic to park their stuff, which backed up all the teams behind them.

[Covey41]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

THEY WILL NOT ALLOW BATTERY CARTS!! From what I was told when I called FIRST HQ today, they said NOTHING on wheels will be allowed in on Wednesday night. I questioned this because we are walking from the Marriott with 8 batteries, chargers and our drills, and were hoping to at least put our batteries in a rolling suitcase.

I've got an idea, lets all call FIRST HQ tomorrow and whine about how unfair the rules are! (sarcasm)

Instead of complaining about something, why not just go by the rules. I it find ironic that some of the people who complain the most, are the first ones to talk about "Gracious Professionalism". As mentors and experienced team members we should be setting the example, not teaching new members if we complain/whine enough maybe we can get our way. Like a small child throwing a temper tantrum.

Let's remember the reason for Wed. night is to uncrate the robots, so the crates can be removed. Can you imagine what it would be like if this had to be done Thur. morning, with all the forklifts w/crates. (Like our 1st year in Atlanta.) Due to the tornadoes our pit area is half the size,(Making room for the auto show) making this year's aisles looking smaller, and with a lot less room in the pits. This makes for a dangerous situation. All it takes is for one person to get seriously hurt. Then lets see how the rules change.

Maybe this year, if everyone goes by the rules, and behaves themselves, and show gracious professionalism, next year they will relax the rules.