Low sponsorship, but ok money

[David Noll]

I know there is a post on similar lines but my situation is a bit different...
My team has the money we need to operate but we don't have sponsors for materials, instead of getting people to donate/reduce price on tools and metal we have to shell out the majority of our budget to buy this stuff. Because our money goes towards parts and tools (barely) the students have to pay for hotels and airlines, etc; and we have problems retaining a mentor with the meager salary we can offer them for the huge time commitment we require.
Any suggestion on how to approach or find industrial supply or metal for our needs?
Also, and a bit aside, I noticed a lot of people talking about CNC mills; we would not have the finances for a good CNC mill unless we didn't build a robot for a year. Is it normal for teams to get one?

I'm leaving my team this year and heading to college, so I'm hoping to fix/set up somethings for next year so it's easier on my post-decessors. Any suggestions about money management would also be appreciated.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by David Noll

we have problems retaining a mentor with the meager salary we can offer them for the huge time commitment we require.

Somehow I couldn't get past the idea of mentors getting paid. Sign me up!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by David Noll

I know there is a post on similar lines but my situation is a bit different...
My team has the money we need to operate but we don't have sponsors for materials, instead of getting people to donate/reduce price on tools and metal we have to shell out the majority of our budget to buy this stuff. Because our money goes towards parts and tools (barely) the students have to pay for hotels and airlines, etc; and we have problems retaining a mentor with the meager salary we can offer them for the huge time commitment we require.
Any suggestion on how to approach or find industrial supply or metal for our needs?
Also, and a bit aside, I noticed a lot of people talking about CNC mills; we would not have the finances for a good CNC mill unless we didn't build a robot for a year. Is it normal for teams to get one?

Paid mentors--see if you can get a volunteer.

CNC--You don't need it. My old team only has a drill press and hand tools--the press belongs to a mentor. Come to think of it, the same goes for my current team.

To find industrial supply/machine supply/machine shops, try the phone book. You'd look under machine shops, metal, or any other relevant "keyword". You could do the same thing on the internet. Then, you find the place and talk to the manager or owner. If you can get them on board, you should have no problem. They may even be able to tell you other places to look.

[wendymom]

Your team sounds like its in pretty good shape. We have a drill press, band saw and sander. We struggle every year to find a build space. Getting paid...wow....it costs me money. Our students pay for their own travel as do all the mentors. We have fundraisers where they can try to cover some of the costs....but mostly they shell out.

Try to get someone from a machine shop or a metal supply place on board with your team. Show them pictures....take the robot by. Once they are as excited as you are.....they might cut you a break.

[Akash Rastogi]

Wait, didn't you guys go to 4 regionals this year? + Atlanta?

If you had money for entering those, I don't see why some tools couldn't have been bought instead of a regional or two.

Either way, good luck. And yea, check the phone book - surprisingly useful.

[millerm277]

Any suggestion on how to approach or find industrial supply or metal for our needs?

I know Knott's (They make 80/20, among other things) sponsors some FIRST teams (including us), you might want to see if they'd be willing to sponsor you in some way.

Also, and a bit aside, I noticed a lot of people talking about CNC mills; we would not have the finances for a good CNC mill unless we didn't build a robot for a year. Is it normal for teams to get one?

Our school does the Project Lead The Way engineering courses, and as part of it, bought a small Intelitek CNC, and we use it occasionally for parts. In reality though, it isn't really necessary, it just saves use a bit of time on the really tedious things, we wind up making most things on an old manual Bridgeport (but well-maintained) and two 40-year old South Bend lathes we got to keep when they got rid of metal shop.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

Wait, didn't you guys go to 4 regionals this year? + Atlanta?

If you had money for entering those, I don't see why some tools couldn't have been bought instead of a regional or two.

Either way, good luck. And yea, check the phone book - surprisingly useful.

5 EVENTS!

LOL, most teams would kill for that much money.

[Lil' Lavery]

Sorry, but I find it hard to sympathize with a team that spent $23,000 in registration fees alone and pays their mentors asking for money.

Seriously I'd echo many of the previous statements. Look for local machine shops that may be willing to sponsor you or let you use their tools. Many college machine shops may also be willing to produce a part or two for you when needed.
Perhaps look at re-allocating where you spend your team funding to reduce the travel costs, and allowing for more to be spent on tools and parts.

[ChuckDickerson]

My team has the money we need to operate

Wonderful! So what’s the problem again?

but we don't have sponsors for materials, instead of getting people to donate/reduce price on tools and metal we have to shell out the majority of our budget to buy this stuff.

Oh, now I see. Uh, you sound like you are in much better shape than most teams already. At least you have the money to shell out on materials and tools.

Because our money goes towards parts and tools (barely) the students have to pay for hotels and airlines, etc;

Many teams operate this way. We fundraise as much as we can but it is never enough. The shortfall is divided up and each student on our team pays their part to travel to competition.

and we have problems retaining a mentor with the meager salary we can offer them for the huge time commitment we require.

Are you serious? You pay your "mentors"? Uh, isn't the definition of a mentor someone who volunteers? If you pay them aren't they now just professional consultants? I can't tell you how much money I spend out of my pocket each year for the team including tools, materials, and travel costs. I can't imagine getting paid money to do this. My payment is the joy I get from being a part of it.

Any suggestion on how to approach or find industrial supply or metal for our needs?

As mentioned above start with the phonebook. As with most teams we purchase most all of our materials but sometimes work a little educational discount into the deal. The great folks at our local Fastenal generously donated some aluminum to us this year, which was a first for us. Sometimes it takes years to develop these relationships. Once you have them, do whatever it takes to keep them.

Also, and a bit aside, I noticed a lot of people talking about CNC mills; we would not have the finances for a good CNC mill unless we didn't build a robot for a year. Is it normal for teams to get one?

No CNC required. For power tools we have a floor standing drill press, a bench drill press, a bandsaw, a tablesaw (used for wood only), a cheapo 10" mitersaw (for metal cutting), a 12" mitersaw (used for wood only), a 1" belt sander, a 4" belt sander, and 3 cordless drills. Most all of these have been purchased by myself and either donated to the team or on "indefinite loan". The same goes for most of our hand tools. I say this only to give you and idea what sort of commitment many mentors have for their teams. I guess I am still struggling with the concept of paying a mentor rather than the other way around. BTW: We do have access to a full R&D machine shop with zillion $ CNC equipment and can have them make pretty much whatever we would like but due to liability reasons the students aren't allowed to use the machine tools so the students prefer to do it themselves with the tools we have.

I'm leaving my team this year and heading to college, so I'm hoping to fix/set up somethings for next year so it's easier on my post-decessors. Any suggestions about money management would also be appreciated.

Again, uh, IIRC Team 555 was the only team that went to 4 regionals and is going to the Championships as well. I really can't even imagine ever having enough funds to make it to 5 competitions in one year. By my math that is $23,000 in entry fees alone. Not knowing any of the details about Team 555's financial situation, but since you asked, my suggestion on money management might be to consider going to a few less competitions next year. But whatever you do don't cut out the Bayou Regional. We loved you guys and would sure miss you if you aren't there next year!

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by David Noll

I know there is a post on similar lines but my situation is a bit different...
My team has the money we need to operate but we don't have sponsors for materials, instead of getting people to donate/reduce price on tools and metal we have to shell out the majority of our budget to buy this stuff.

I don't know of many teams that get materials donated, other than bits and pieces. Some sponsors will donate some machine time, but not materials.

We have learned that many suppliers (aluminum tube, plate, etc) will reduce the price if you buy in quantity, but it is a volume discount. Many of these suppliers are low margin businesses and cannot afford to give things away.
Maybe by planning, you can make one big purchase for a lower total cost.

For tools, try a wholesale tool or harbor freight type place for items that will be low utilization, but spend the money for higher quality tools that you use on a regular basis (drills, hand tools) or you will buy a new one every year.

And, as a few others have implied, if you are attending 5 events this year, you are probably one of the top budgeted teams in FIRST.

[Rick TYler]

I just wanted to note that I've fronted the whole budget for our team the last two years, and have been (slowly) paid back as we raised money. We attend one regional and our FTC championships in Atlanta. An FRC team attending five events who PAYS their mentors doesn't -- frankly speaking -- generate much sympathy when it comes to finances. I suggest you count your blessings and ship some of your extra money our way!

[kjhobin]

FYI: By paid, we mean the school gives them a small stipend ($5000) since they are the advisor of a school club (our mentor worked it out, for as much time she puts into the program its about $2.00 per hour)

The stipend does not come out of our budget. Only our two school mentors get "paid".

[Tom Line]

Wow.

5 events, and paid mentors, and can't find the money for parts for your robot?

Considering the limit on robot cost, ONE regional entry fee should be more than enough.

Or, considering that 99% of the mentors out there work for absolutely nothing, perhaps your two mentors that are getting paid could each donate $2500, take the tax write-off, and fund you.

Our team has 4 big-name sponsers and we stretch doing 2 regionals and an off season event or two. I'm horribly jealous .

With regards to student costs, are you aware that most big name teams require a SIZEABLE fee to participate each year, sometimes on the order of $1k or more?

[Madison]

Teachers being paid a stipend for participation in an extracurricular activity is not unusual. I'd be remarkably surprised if a sizeable number of teachers involved in FIRST teams do not receive a similar stipend.

The rest of us, however, are overworked for free.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Teachers being paid a stipend for participation in an extracurricular activity is not unusual. I'd be remarkably surprised if a sizeable number of teachers involved in FIRST teams do not receive a similar stipend.

The rest of us, however, are overworked for free.

Here's a thread on stipends. There may be others if anyone wants to search.