String Theory: <G22> at the Championships

[65_Xero_Huskie]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Mat, this is the 2nd time you have mentioned this, the other being here http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...671#post729671 where you did "specify". If you have conclusive evidence of missed hurdles should have been counted, please show it. Not every time the ball goes above the Overpass is it a hurdle. It could have hit the originating robot on the way down. Or the Trackball might have previously been scored, and had not yet crossed the other finish line, so it was ineligible to score again.

Well, i have seen another time while watching TBA. But if you want me to i will post the occurance i talked about before.

http://www.adambots.com/index.php?title=Videos

Quarterfinals Match 1.

At the 1:54 mark, 68 hurdles, we recieve no points.
Right after 245 hurdles and Still at 60 points.
We get the 2 penalties which brings us down to 44 (because of the 2 lines crossed)

Im not saying the refs are doing a bad job. Im just stating the fact that there are times when things slip by and a sting would Def. be overlooked alot.

[Mike Schroeder]

So i was playing basketball today..... i was thinking screw dribbling i mean coordination is tough i have never really been big on it so why should i do it, its a stupid rule.

The other day I was playing football... i was bored so i mixed things up when the QB called for the snap i ran backwards into my teams end zone and it was really far away. I should have gotten 6 points... instead my team mates kicked me off the field.

a couple of weeks ago I was playing baseball, I was up to bat i hit a fastball deep to center.... i ran to third instead of first i though what the hell they are the same distance apart. I got called for an out

a month or so ago I was refereeing FIRST Overdrive. we played a competition without G22 and i got so confused with scoring that i didn't know if bots were coming or going. the scores were totally off. I got home that night and there was a thread on CD with all the people responding in this thread complaining that the isn't a rule preventing teams from throwing off the refs count of robots and also complaining about the idiot referee who didn't know what he was doing throwing off all the scores like that.
Now i feel bad and i will never volunteer at an FRC event again.

Years ago I swam competitively I was swimming the 100m Freestyle and decided to play defense so half way through my second lap i made a left turn.



So moral of my story..

Thank you students of FIRST your tireless efforts of needing something anything to complain about has driven away more VOLUNTEERS than I could ever imagine, made so that if the GDC were as smart as i think they are they would just start releasing the same game every year so you can all just perfect your games instead of playing something new and inventive.

Thank you students of FIRST for killing what FIRST was/is, for making it work. for killing my passion.

Thanks

[Herodotus]

Mike, I have the utmost respect for all of the volunteers at these competitions, they have an extremely tough job. I also have the utmost respect for the GDC and their intelligence and creativity at giving us a great game year after year(though I had my doubts at the start of this year.) But I think your post is taking things a bit far. Baseball, Football, and American Football have been around for decades, if not centuries in one form or another. They've had many, many, many games and tries to hammer down the rules and to create rules that truly enhance the game.

A FIRST game lasts a year, and then leaves. There is no time for the development of the game that many other sports have had. So I don't think it is entirely unreasonable to believe that there will be some rules, each year, that people just don't like, and that can detract from the game itself. It doesn't kill the game, far from it, but it can certainly detract from it. No one, not even the all mighty GDC, is perfect. They will make "mistakes"(I use that word very loosely in this case, it's mostly a matter of opinion), especially given the very short development time for the game.

I don't see how it is at all disrespectful or improper for people to discuss what they like and dislike about the game. Whats the point of playing a game you don't like? So wouldn't it be in everyone's best interests to discuss this year's game, to voice their opinions, and to discuss what might need to be done to make a game more enjoyable?

I just have to say, at the end of most matches the thought that runs through my mind is "Well, depending on the penalties, blue/red could take it." I found that a little saddening. I personally haven't had too much of an issue with G22, like I said I've had maybe four or five penalties from it, but if as many people have an issue with it as it seems, maybe there really is a genuine problem(though maybe there isn't.) My point though, is that either way it can't hurt to discuss it.

Now, If I've entirely missed the point of your post, please beat me with a pool noodle until I understand.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by 65_Xero_Huskie

Well, i have seen another time while watching TBA. But if you want me to i will post the occurance i talked about before.

http://www.adambots.com/index.php?title=Videos

Quarterfinals Match 1.

At the 1:54 mark, 68 hurdles, we recieve no points.
Right after 245 hurdles and Still at 60 points.
We get the 2 penalties which brings us down to 44 (because of the 2 lines crossed)

You are correct, the video shows two hurdles not being recorded. The quality of the video doesn't show why that might have been.

I would note that 16 points wouldn't have made a difference in that match. That doesn't excuse a referee not scoring, if that's what happened. But it wasn't a disaster like in some other controversial matches.

[Mike Schroeder]

of course i know everyone isn't perfect i have a scar on my arm to remind me everyday people make mistakes... i get a permanent reminder of some of mine every day. Thats not the point. This is the point with out the story. Stop Complaining. its a CHALLENGE. Now go look up what challenge means... I'll wait.............................................. .............................................

Back?

Cool now a Challenge isn't an easy thing. Read my signature. Look at what Dave Lavery does every day. Remember Apollo 13. We Chose to goto the moon not because its easy but because it is hard. G22 is a game Challenge. what all these posts tell me not just this thread actually i kinda like the rope idea, its cool in a weird way... i like weird and it kind of goes with what i am saying. YOU all chose to play FIRST Overdrive... You survived an amazingly difficult 6 weeks... can i tell you a secret? I didn't survive the 6 weeks this year... come up to me at championships ask me about it if you want i am not ashamed. but the pride everyone should feel about surviving build, is negated in my eyes in the complete and utter loss of composure at a mere rule not only a rule but a rule about a boundary. FIRST is about setting new boundaries. not about running to your computer and blaming your loss on a rule and a boundary. I know what you are thinking right now but Mr. Big Mike sir it wasn't far. well your right and in adversity and dispair there are 2 kinds of people Winners and losers. Winners take their loss respectably go home to play again. Losers sit at their computers and expect me to read how a Referee cost them their Regional win. I have experience in this remember i said i didn't make it 6 weeks and i was defiantly a loser about it for a long time

well i guess i did actually tell a story sorry...

i understand everyones pain. its been a trying year Aidan warned us I was there sitting in the bleachers....

I have been very lucky for the most part through FIRST i have a National Championships and 2 World Finalists under my belt.

I guess what i am trying to say with testing the language filter is this:

Life has its Ups and Downs, you can stay down or push yourself . Push yourself god $@#$@#$@#$@# it PUSH YOURSELF try your hardest win or lose walk out of that arena Saturday a winner not a medal winning winner but a person who put their soul and more of themselves into competing, didn't things go your way but still walked out smiling. make the person with the medal and trophy feel bad they have a medal who cares you have your pride and that is something no person can take from you, not even some screw up referee. there is a challenge.. do you think you can handle it?

[Herodotus]

I completely agree that you shouldn't blame your losses on the rules. But I don't think most people are doing that. What disheartens me is not when I get these penalties, that happens, but when everyone is collectively getting enough that "Who has more penalties?" has become a MAJOR question to be asked at the end of a match.

If penalties are deciding not a few, not some, but many matches it would seem to me there might be a little bit of a problem with the rules. You can say that it is a challenge, but the challenge should be in playing the game, not in simply trying to keep from getting penalties. And I would say putting that trackball over the overpass is quite a challenge as it is. It is completely unfair for the teams to try to blame loses on a rule, it is still their job to try to follow it and to not get penalties. But we should still be free to discuss the rule itself like the intelligent, civilized human beings we are so we can maybe discover why so many people don't like the rule. It can't hurt to discuss these things.

Comparing this to landing rovers on Mars is a bit excessive. FIRST is still a sport, a game. It needs to be challenging AND fun.(and in my opinion it still is, even with G22.)

I dunno, I guess I'm just trying to say people shouldn't have an issue with simply discussing the rule. Though I agree that some take their complaints quite a bit too far.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I dunno, I guess I'm just trying to say people shouldn't have an issue with simply discussing the rule. Though I agree that some take their complaints quite a bit too far.

If everyone was as mature in their discussion as you are, David, I doubt there would be an issue. There has been a lot more heat than light on CD about the rules and officiating.

[vivek16]

Personally, I like G22. No I do not like losing points due to referee error or an accident but I like the fact that like in real life, there will always be some things that you have little control over.

Play the game as it was intended and remember to have fun.

-Vivek

[Stephen Kowski]

Originally Posted by proegssilb

Do you remember anything else about that team? Or maybe what times they played? I'd like to see what exactly this team was doing when they got the penalty.

they would flip out of the back, 2 of em, each string connected to a piece of IFI frame material probably 12" or so behind them....

edit: i found some photos from the regional and it was either team team 900 or 804 (i can't really tell from the photos, poor angle)

[proegssilb]

Originally Posted by Stephen Kowski

they would flip out of the back, 2 of em, each string connected to a piece of IFI frame material probably 12" or so behind them....

edit: i found some photos from the regional and it was either team team 900 or 804 (i can't really tell from the photos, poor angle)

Thank you. I think looking up two teams on The Blue Alliance is straightforward enough, and I'll be looking at them after I finish my homework.