This board is quiet-- so how bout this election?!?!?

[archiver]

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.

Posted on 11/8/2000 1:53 PM MST



So let's not get into an argument about who should win and how shouldn't--
But what does everyone think of the electoral college system vs. the popular vote?

If this is a true democracy-- shouldn't what the PEOPLE say, go..?

And what kind of country would be have if it was led by a president who people don't feel won the right?

And now to relate this to FIRST-- which canidate (if any) do you think has/had the best interest of the future of America in mind? There's so much focus on things that don't matter--
hey mr.president, instead of cutting the taxes or wasting our money, why don't we start helping some kids go to college? start from ground up.. let's get our schools up-to-date books.. let's pay our teachers a little more for all their efforts.. let's make sure kids can read the high school diplomas they receive.. let's make college a little more affordable for the middle and lower classes of America.. i worked hard in high school, made good grades, worked ALL the time and all my summers, and yes, I may not be able to attend college next semester-- why kind of world is this?

But then again-- the people vote and it's not respected--

so what do all the other registered voters think?

(For the record-- I voted for Gore; I completely dislike Bush.. but this electoral college has got to go.)

[archiver]

Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 11/8/2000 2:04 PM MST


In Reply to: This board is quiet-- so how bout this election?!?!? posted by colleen on 11/8/2000 1:53 PM MST:



For what it is worth, when George Bush lived at 1600 Penn. Ave., the National Champs & the Chairman's Award Winners were invited to a very nice Whitehouse Reception.

The practice was not continued by the Clintons.

If 'W' squeaks past the 269 magic number, perhaps such visits will be re-instated.

Just a thought.

Joe J.

[archiver]

Posted by Matt Leese.

Other on team #73 from Edison Technical HS and Rochester Institute of Technology.

Posted on 11/8/2000 4:03 PM MST


In Reply to: For what it's worth... posted by Joe Johnson on 11/8/2000 2:04 PM MST:



Well, I can't speak for every year but I do know specifically that in 1996 (yes, when Bill Clinton was President), the National Championship winner was invited to the White House. FYI, that was the RIT and Edison Tech team that we are reforming right now. We've got pictures to prove it too. The reception was led by Al Gore as Bill Clinton was not available. And, I'm sorry, if you pick a President based on whether or not you get invited to the White House, you've got to reevaluate your priorities.

Matt

[archiver]

Posted by Lora Knepper.

Other on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NASA, Mathsoft, Solidworks, Analog Devices.

Posted on 11/8/2000 4:25 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: For what it's worth... posted by Matt Leese on 11/8/2000 4:03 PM MST:



:And, I'm sorry, if you pick a President based on
:whether or not you get invited to the White House,
:you've got to reevaluate your priorities.

I totally have to agree with Matt on this one. This should NOT be a factor in selecting the leader of our country, even though I do see it as great recognition for FIRST. That said, I think that there are some loopholes in the Electoral College system (especially if Gore loses! sheesh...), but generally the system has worked...and for the most part people are just very very misinformed about the system, something that irks me to no end. (yeah, I'm in American Government and I worked on this election doing exit polls) And you know, I think I'm going to be quiet now b/c I've gotten into far too many political arguments today on only 2 hours of sleep =) So....go Gore (better than the others!) and I'm going to get some sleep before Florida comes through....

~lora

[archiver]

Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 11/8/2000 8:36 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: For what it's worth... posted by Lora Knepper on 11/8/2000 4:25 PM MST:



Matt and Lora,

I don't believe that my initial message advocated support for FIRST as a reason for casting a vote, but rather was an after the fact assessment of some potential good that may flow to FIRST given one (slightly more probable at this point in time) potential outcome.

BUT...

I have devoted a significant fraction of my waking hours for the last 5 years advancing FIRST and it's goals. I BELIEVE THAT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

To suggest that casting my vote based on whether I believe one candidate will support me or oppose me in this endevour is somehow out of bounds or silly, in my view, can only indicate how little sleep you folks must have had recently (slight sarcasm alert).

While I did not cast my vote on that basis, I suggest that this would have been a much more serious basis on which to make my decision than the basis that 99% of the population used. Even more important, I believe that this method of deciding which lever to pull would have, in fact, been a more serious issue than the issues that the candidates themselves urged me to use.

I really mean this. In my view, there is NO FIX for social security if the USA loses its tenuous grasp on its leading position in technology. There is NO FIX for the environmental problems (real or imaged) without mathmeticians, scientist, and engineers. There is NO FIX for our education system without the consumers (students and parents) demanding that the problems be fixed. And on and on...

FIRST, at its core, addresses these concerns more squarely than any of the proposals that any of the main stream candidates' proposal.

For what it's worth...

Joe J.

[archiver]

Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 11/9/2000 6:21 AM MST


In Reply to: It's worth more than you give me credit for... posted by Joe Johnson on 11/8/2000 8:36 PM MST:



From my message:

'... I suggest that this would have been a much more serious basis on which to make my decision than the basis that 99% of the population used....'


When I get tired, I tend to overstate my case. While lying in bed just before dropping off, I mentally reviewed the pro's & con's of the message I had just submitted to the Forum. Thinking about it, I believe I made too broad a statement concerning the seriousness of the electorate. Where I said 99% above, I should have said 'a clear majority.' It doesn't really change the main thrust of my message, but it will allow me to sleep better at nights.

So... I apologize to the voting populace.

Regards,

Joe J.

[archiver]

Posted by Andy Baker.

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 11/9/2000 6:43 AM MST


In Reply to: For what it's worth... posted by Joe Johnson on 11/8/2000 2:04 PM MST:



From what I recall, both the Chairman's Award winner and the National Champ. used to be invited to the White House.

We were not invited in '98 (45: National Champs), and Chief Delphi didn't go in '97 (47: Chairman's Award). So, the practice must've halted after '96.

I do remember that there were some folks from FIRST looking into getting us a visit in '98 (Vince?). About the same time that FIRST was inquiring about a visit to the White House, a scandal surfaced at the White House... it had something to do with interns and someone named Lewinsky. Hmmm... I wonder what ever bacame of that?!?

Our team was definitely excited about a possible trip to the White House and disappointed that it did not come through. I personally, would've been happy to visit the White House, but I would've had second thoughts about shaking Clinton's hand.

Let's hope that this old tradition gets put back in place with either Bush or Gore.

For what it's worth... I hope that it is Bush.

Andy B.

[archiver]

Posted by Matt Leese.

Other on team #73 from Edison Technical HS and Rochester Institute of Technology.

Posted on 11/8/2000 4:10 PM MST


In Reply to: This board is quiet-- so how bout this election?!?!? posted by colleen on 11/8/2000 1:53 PM MST:



Why not increase spending on those things that help the middle class (i.e. college, etc.)? Well, first of all, I'd say that the federal government should not be involved in those things. The Constitution delegates all other powers that are not explicitly stated in the Constitution to the States. There's no mention of college assistance in the Constitution (among other things). Second of all, why does the government take a part in this anyway? If the money that we saved from paying taxes were applied to a combination of paying for your own education and money could also be given to private scholarships. So maybe instead of giving everyone a 'helping hand' and wasting so much money on the bureaucracy of government, we instead leave it in the hands of the people. And yes, this theory does apply to many other candidates. BTW, if you think I'm a Bush supporter, you'd be wrong. Harry Browne and the Libertarian Party all the way! Sorry, you got me started there. And I apologize to our Canadian and Brazillian comrades as they have very little interst in this at all........

Matt who's tired of the two-party system......

[archiver]

Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 11/8/2000 8:05 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: This board is quiet-- so how bout this election?!?!? posted by Matt Leese on 11/8/2000 4:10 PM MST:



Have your read any Ayn Rand lately?

Altas Shrugged is perhaps the the most influential novel I have ever read.

Recommended.

Joe J.

[archiver]

Posted by Jason Rudolph.

Other on team #459, , from University of Florida/Eastside High School and .

Posted on 11/8/2000 5:17 PM MST


In Reply to: This board is quiet-- so how bout this election?!?!? posted by colleen on 11/8/2000 1:53 PM MST:



: If this is a true democracy-- shouldn't what the PEOPLE say, go..?
This isn't a TRUE democracy, a TRUE democracy was what the romans had, well, it's the closest thing so far at least. A TRUE democracy is where the people govern themselves, we have a Representative democracy, where the people elect the officials which govern over them (well, for the most part, there was Ford, who hadn't even been elected by one person)

: And what kind of country would be have if it was led by a president who people don't feel won the right?
Well, that's all relative, you are NEVER going to find a candidate which ALL of the people want, so you have to go with the Majority, however, in an election this close, it probably wont matter a whole lot who ends up winning, because since the country is so evenly divided, if the president elect doesn't satisfy enough voters, he'll lose in the next election, and unfortunately for us, these ARE career politicians, and their main concern is getting reelected, not creating efficient policy (that's why I'm Nader all the way).

: And now to relate this to FIRST-- which canidate (if any) do you think has/had the best interest of the future of America in mind? There's so much focus on things that don't matter--
Which would that be? From the looks of it to me, the majority of the focus is on extremely important issues, nothing that I have seen is something that doesn't matter.

: But then again-- the people vote and it's not respected--
I completely disagree, if the politicians didn't pay attention to the people's vote, they would not be politicians at all, if they don't at least respect our vote, then they do fear it

: so what do all the other registered voters think?
NADER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and I agree on the electoral college DOES have to go.

[archiver]

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.

Posted on 11/9/2000 11:01 AM MST


In Reply to: Re: This board is quiet-- so how bout this election?!?!? posted by Jason Rudolph on 11/8/2000 5:17 PM MST:



Democracy: People make the decisions

Republic: People elect people to make the decisions for them

..point confirmed by anyone who watched West Wing Wednesday night.. it's within the typical realm of the American vocabulary to refer our system as a democracy, my fault..

[archiver]

Posted by Erin.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #1, ., from alumni of the juggernauts and ..

Posted on 11/9/2000 3:00 PM MST


In Reply to: Point taken-- this is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy.. posted by colleen on 11/9/2000 11:01 AM MST:



America..ahh, living under the myth that we are a democracy...

more like an oligarchy.
'Government where power is in the hands of few.'

Is anything TRULY a democracy?
I wish my homelife was...
-Erin

p.s. 'I invented pants.' Gore is ahead by 341 in FLA....

[archiver]

Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 11/9/2000 3:05 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: Point taken-- this is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy.. posted by Erin on 11/9/2000 3:00 PM MST:



: p.s. 'I invented pants.' Gore is ahead by 341 in FLA....

I believe you mean BEHIND by 341.

Joe J.

[archiver]

Posted by Jessica Boucher.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Student on team #237, Sie-H2O-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning Systems & The Siemon Company.

Posted on 11/8/2000 7:46 PM MST


In Reply to: This board is quiet-- so how bout this election?!?!? posted by colleen on 11/8/2000 1:53 PM MST:



Wow, great topic.
Even though I'm not a registered voter, I'm 17 and I'm pretty darn close, so I felt I had to watch this election closely, cause he'll be in office when I do hit that magic number in June.
Personally, I would have voted for Gore....I have nothing against W, Jeb is the one that bothers me...it's great to see them at Nats, but when the only comment that he can make upon meeting the kids in the media tent was that he was glad all the 'Bush states' were represented (A guy from Texas, a guy from FL, and me, from CT...though we're more a Lieberman-state than Bush-country anymore).
Though that doesnt mean Im choosing Gore for the 'lesser of two evils'....I think he's the most competent, thats all....and Lieberman is a large plus.
About the electoral college thingy, its worked so far, but maybe it is time for a re-vamping. But, its not for me to decide.
Ok, I'm done for now..

-Jess Boucher #237

[archiver]

Posted by Erin.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #1, ., from alumni of the juggernauts and ..

Posted on 11/8/2000 8:27 PM MST


In Reply to: This board is quiet-- so how bout this election?!?!? posted by colleen on 11/8/2000 1:53 PM MST:



THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE

hmm..
back in the days of the congressional congress, the electoral college may or may not have made a fair and accurate representation of the people and how they voted. BUT ITS THE NEXT MILLENIUM HERE, and if we can alter amendments, then why can we not alter this little problem we know at the electoral college?

Its completely ridiculous that the popular vote doesn't win.

-Erin

p.s. GLAD TO HAVE MY PASSWORD BACK...WAS LOST WITHOUT IT