NEW 2009 Control System Released

[Kyle Fenton]

Does anyone know if this is mac and linux compatible. I know that there is a Labview IDE for mac os x, but is there a compiler for the new control board

[Bongle]

Hmmm... If it's using 802.11, I wonder what effect that will have on in-pit wireless networks (I wonder if it is why they weren't allowed in Atlanta)

Cool system though. I hope I'm near a team next year so I can play with it some.

[writchie]

Originally Posted by Bongle

Hmmm... If it's using 802.11, I wonder what effect that will have on in-pit wireless networks (I wonder if it is why they weren't allowed in Atlanta)

Cool system though. I hope I'm near a team next year so I can play with it some.

The docs suggest there will be a different wireless modem for the competition.

I do hope that whoever provided the answers in the FAQ isn't engineering the wireless. 802.11 does NOT have 11 clear channels. There are only 3 non-overlapping channels in 802.11b/g.

Also the estimated date of availability to teams "KICKOFF", suggests that this program has already seriously slipped. That's not an estimate - its a drop dead deadline.

[scirobotics]

man, this is gonna be hge, have any of you guys thought of the posibilities?

too bad that we can't program ahead now, due to the whole system changing. doe sthis mean we only have 6 weeks to really get programming done?

[Jonathan Norris]

They are talking alot about how rugged the controller is... but it looks like every other component is exposed. Like the Power distribution, IO, Digital side car are basically just electrical boards. Hopefully these arn't the final product, the controller looks sweet and all.

[laultima]

One thing I am extremely exited about is the new power distribution block. Last year the PDB was the bane of our teams existence.

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

They are talking alot about how rugged the controller is... but it looks like every other component is exposed. Like the Power distribution, IO, Digital side car are basically just electrical boards. Hopefully these arn't the final product, the controller looks sweet and all.

Thats something that worries me about the new OI/Driver Station. Theres absolutely no protective housing. Though from the picture here http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/driverstation.html, I don't see any of the bottom buttons or headers labeled, making me think there will eventually be an enclosure for it.

[writchie]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris

They are talking alot about how rugged the controller is... but it looks like every other component is exposed. Like the Power distribution, IO, Digital side car are basically just electrical boards. Hopefully these arn't the final product, the controller looks sweet and all.

If you dig down to the photos you will see that there are fairly well insulated cases for everything. Electrically, its now a kitbot and FRC will now be a field of LABVIEW demobots.

It remains to be seen whether there will be any viable C/C++ platform possible for 2009. Certainly not if you can't get your hands on anything until kickoff.

[eitang]

here is the pic of a temp case for the driver station
http://first.wpi.edu/driver_station_in_temp_case.jpg

[Mr. Lim]

We can all hope that they did something similar to when we switched controllers in 2004.

Teams received the EDU-RC which was a smaller footprint version of the new RC. It was functionally the same, and would later become the foundation of the VEX controller.

Based on today's FTC announcement, one would wonder if we couldn't do the same with the new FTC controller? I haven't heard much on that front... but if they use the same programming toolchain, it could happen.

[writchie]

Originally Posted by SlimBoJones

We can all hope that they did something similar to when we switched controllers in 2004.

Teams received the EDU-RC which was a smaller footprint version of the new RC. It was functionally the same, and would later become the foundation of the VEX controller.

Based on today's FTC announcement, one would wonder if we couldn't do the same with the new FTC controller? I haven't heard much on that front... but if they use the same programming toolchain, it could happen.

The two architectures are completely different. It appears the only commonality would be through labview.

You can get started with the new FRC control system stuff now. The following are current prices:

cRIO 9074 - $2999
Power Supply & Cables $249
9201, 9403, and 9472 Modules and Cables $1219
Subtotal Total Hardware $4467

Software:

Labview for Windows $4099
Labview Real-Time Module $2499
Labview FPGA Module $2499

Subtotal Software $9097

Total $13,564

The above doesn't include the custom undocumented digital sidecar so the above would only get you started on the tool chain and sensor platforms.

[whytheheckme]

MK, thought out of the blue.

I remember on one of the Control System prediction forms, someone from intelitek said that they couldn't say intelitek's involvement for next years control system, but that they were very excited about it....

Have we heard anything about easyC?

Jacob

[Roboj]

Originally Posted by writchie

I do hope that whoever provided the answers in the FAQ isn't engineering the wireless. 802.11 does NOT have 11 clear channels. There are only 3 non-overlapping channels in 802.11b/g.

You are correct that 802.11b/g only have 3 clear channels. However, the FAQ did not say b or g were being used. Other 802.11 variants (such as 802.11a) do have 11 non-overlapping clear channels.

[dcbrown]

Originally Posted by writchie

The two architectures are completely different. It appears the only commonality would be through labview.

You can get started with the new FRC control system stuff now. The following are current prices:

cRIO 9074 - $2999
Power Supply & Cables $249
9201, 9403, and 9472 Modules and Cables $1219
Subtotal Total Hardware $4467

Software:

Labview for Windows $4099
Labview Real-Time Module $2499
Labview FPGA Module $2499

Subtotal Software $9097

Total $13,564

The above doesn't include the custom undocumented digital sidecar so the above would only get you started on the tool chain and sensor platforms.

Also doesn't include the "bumps" for the i/o modules or the cable for the digital side car, or the wireless access point listed as part of the cRIO-FRC kit.

Discounting is steep - to start NI offers 30% discount for 100 or more of same config ordered in a 1 year period. Going to 4 slot chassis from 8 saves $300. The FPGA size is one of the more sensitive pieces. Going from a 1M to 3M FPGA is an increase of $1700.

But anyway you slice it, this is an expensive piece of hardware. If teams want a 2nd one for proto work, its going to put a serious dent in the budget. This could become a factor between have and have-not teams in terms of which have deep pockets and are able to afford a 2nd controller setup unless teams are able to order a cRIO-FRC at discounted price. Of course, if teams can come up with ~$4000 needed now to purchase one they could go that route. But, without the pwm breakout board (digital sidecar), it would be difficult to build a fully functioning robot.

Debug is either via LabVIEW or Wind River IDE. But in order to use Wind River Workbench IDE you need a full license for the WR IDE -- but that isn't listed on the description of what's included in the new controller set.

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by dcbrown

Of course, if teams can come up with ~$4000 needed now to purchase one they could go that route. But, without the pwm breakout board (digital sidecar), it would be difficult to build a fully functioning robot.

It's actually not $4000. The academic price is significantly cheaper but still would put a dent in the budget.

[lingomaniac88]

I was looking at some stuff on WPI, and I'm wondering about something. Looking at the driver station, I noticed that there are some extra pins for digital input, digital output, and analog. What are these meant for? Are they meant for custom buttons and switches to control our robots?

I want to make sure I know how things are hooked up. If one end of a PWM cable goes into a Victor speed controller, where does the other end go? Does it go into the SideCar? If so, where? If not, does it go right into the analog module? What about for Spike relays? It would be really disappointing to have a well-built robot that can't do a darn thing because it's not hooked up properly.