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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:02
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by Kyle Fenton View Post
Does anyone know if this is mac and linux compatible. I know that there is a Labview IDE for mac os x, but is there a compiler for the new control board
WindRiver Workbench is being provided as a development environment. Wind River is the company that produces vxWorks, the realtime OS that is running on the new controller. I know that workbench works on multiple hosts (Unix, Linux, Windows). It remains to be seen exactly what sort of support we get for this from Wind River, but I've asked my contacts there to look into it.

It would be really cool if we get access to Wind River tools beyond the IDE for compilation. With just the compilation support, we would get static code analysis, and incremental build support. Windriver has additional tools for memory leak detection, code profiling, and real time diagnostics.

Check out WindRiver.com for info about what might be possible. In particular the scope tools (Memscope, Profilescope, Stethoscope).
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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:12
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by lingomaniac88 View Post
I was looking at some stuff on WPI, and I'm wondering about something. Looking at the driver station, I noticed that there are some extra pins for digital input, digital output, and analog. What are these meant for? Are they meant for custom buttons and switches to control our robots?

I want to make sure I know how things are hooked up. If one end of a PWM cable goes into a Victor speed controller, where does the other end go? Does it go into the SideCar? If so, where? If not, does it go right into the analog module? What about for Spike relays? It would be really disappointing to have a well-built robot that can't do a darn thing because it's not hooked up properly.

You do realize that EVERYONE just found out exactly what this thing is today? Wait for time to pass until manuals are printed and sent out or links to the product manuals. You could always visit NI and read about the overall platform.

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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:13
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

the old one aesthetically looked sexier, and i got it tattooed on me, im not getting any new control sysytem tattoos any time soon but im glad we are moving in the fast lane.
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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:16
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by dipmeinaluminum View Post
the old one aesthetically looked sexier, and i got it tattooed on me, ....
Ouch! OK, I surrender. You win the award for most commitment to the IFI control system.
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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:24
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by dcbrown View Post

But anyway you slice it, this is an expensive piece of hardware. If teams want a 2nd one for proto work, its going to put a serious dent in the budget. This could become a factor between have and have-not teams in terms of which have deep pockets and are able to afford a 2nd controller setup unless teams are able to order a cRIO-FRC at discounted price. Of course, if teams can come up with ~$4000 needed now to purchase one they could go that route. But, without the pwm breakout board (digital sidecar), it would be difficult to build a fully functioning robot.
From the FAQ from http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/csoverview.html :
Quote:
Q How can I buy an additional controller? How much will it cost?
A Teams will be able to purchase one additional control system each year at a heavily reduced price. The exact details are still being finalized.
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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:43
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

the only thing that worries me os that, if new RC's dont get shipped out before kickoff for teams to learn, there's gonna be a lot of powerhouse teams really lagging behind.
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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:46
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

For the life of me, I swore I saw that there will be a 2 hour training session for the new control system at 5pm today down in Atlanta. I can't remember where I saw this. Am I hallucinating, or does anyone else know what I'm talking about?

More importantly, is this going to be webcast? Or available online at a later date?
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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:49
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike AA View Post
You do realize that EVERYONE just found out exactly what this thing is today? Wait for time to pass until manuals are printed and sent out or links to the product manuals. You could always visit NI and read about the overall platform.
Yes, I do realize that. I just wanted to express my questions/concerns, and I wanted to know how everyone else thinks this goes together. I didn't expect a definitive answer from anyone, except if that person has some knowledge of how the cRIO works, say, a person affiliated with NI or someone who worked with the demo robots this morning.
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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:51
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by Roboj View Post
You are correct that 802.11b/g only have 3 clear channels. However, the FAQ did not say b or g were being used. Other 802.11 variants (such as 802.11a) do have 11 non-overlapping clear channels.
While I'd love to see them using 802.11a, I've never seen a reference to 802.11a that involved 11 non-overlapping channels. IIRC it's 8 in North America and 4 in Asia, at least for legal operations. I guess we'll know soon enough.

I do hope they are not intending to operate AP's in the robots and that these boxes will be client side bridges.
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Unread 17-04-2008, 15:59
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by lingomaniac88 View Post
Yes, I do realize that. I just wanted to express my questions/concerns, and I wanted to know how everyone else thinks this goes together. I didn't expect a definitive answer from anyone, except if that person has some knowledge of how the cRIO works, say, a person affiliated with NI or someone who worked with the demo robots this morning.

Chasing down the wires in this picuture: http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/cstechnical.html

It would appear that the victors are connected to the Sidecar
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Unread 17-04-2008, 16:00
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by writchie View Post
... I do hope they are not intending to operate AP's in the robots and that these boxes will be client side bridges.
Yeah, I wondered about that, too. This picture indicates an AP.

Can anyone who is in Atlanta now and has seen the demonstrations confirm that?
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Unread 17-04-2008, 16:09
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

Initial impressions....

I like the power and the ability to do floating point and wireless downloading. The ability to realtime monitor everything without printf's will make debugging much easier as quicker as well and that will allow for a quicker development cycle. That power and ease is coming at an expense, though.

It comes in at just over 5+ pounds for just the cRio, not including the bumpers and digital sidecar. I think people are going to be surprised when they actually get this thing in their hands and realize they just lost a couple pounds of potential robot compared to the old system.

System placement is likely to be more difficult as well. With the slim form factor of the existing equipment, I've made the comment several times to the mechanical team that they can do anything they need to do and we'll work around it - not so anymore.

Those are all small gripes though - because the system looks pretty awesome. My biggest worry is the software we're going to start out with. If we don't have ready-made function blocks for the wiz-bang "auton recording" and image recognition - along with functions like the gyroscope, quadrature encoders, etc, many teams are going to have a very very difficult time. I'd wager 1/2 the teams couldn't do what they do now without Kevin or other's code to help them. The lack of time with a C IDE is going to hurt a lot of teams.

If you haven't done Labview before, it's a total shift in thinking when you program. I'm not sure I like being semi-locked into the environment. IF that is what ends up happening.

The teams who can afford to pony up the $$'s for the extra system for a practice bot are going to be hugely ahead of the curve next year. The handful that can pony up cash for a system right now are going to be downright scary.

So - I'm excited about the potential, but nervous about potentially being locked into a development environment that I've never been particularly fond of. I wonder - how many school have classes with Labview.....
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Unread 17-04-2008, 16:17
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by ebmonon36 View Post
Chasing down the wires in this picuture: http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/cstechnical.html

It would appear that the victors are connected to the Sidecar
From the tech specs on the sidecar it appears that it provides the pwm drivers and power for the PWM's (when connected to servos). It looks like it may also have 8 relay drivers and 14 TTL GPIO's. In other words, its basically most the present controller except for the $15 PIC.

The SPI which is marked (SPI/I2C) is a mystery. Hopefully this goes to a hardware based SPI and I2C controllers so there can be some hope of $50 instead of $500 sensors.

It's very nice to see friction lock connectors on the PWM. Too bad this didn't extend to the other I/O's. It's for 2009 afterall, hotglue shouldn't be required to keep wires from falling out
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Unread 17-04-2008, 16:18
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by SlimBoJones View Post
For the life of me, I swore I saw that there will be a 2 hour training session for the new control system at 5pm today down in Atlanta. I can't remember where I saw this. Am I hallucinating, or does anyone else know what I'm talking about?

More importantly, is this going to be webcast? Or available online at a later date?
You're not crazy. The two hour training session (for mentors) was announced in an email blast from FIRST, linked in another thread.
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Unread 17-04-2008, 16:27
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Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released

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Originally Posted by writchie View Post
From the tech specs on the sidecar it appears that it provides the pwm drivers and power for the PWM's (when connected to servos). It looks like it may also have 8 relay drivers and 14 TTL GPIO's.
this should be a plug in module, not an add-on....I wonder if they're working on it? The slideshow seems to indicate that the sidecar is a prototype...we can hope...
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