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Unread 20-04-2008, 11:26
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

I loved the game. It had a great autonomous mode that allowed for the simple and the complex to both have a chance, and to be meaningful unlike last year's low-point-value autonomous.

This game also had a lot of energy and was fairly simple to understand for a walk-in fan (both like the 2006 game).

Thanks FIRST for a great year from everyone on 1024 and especially our outgoing students!

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Unread 20-04-2008, 12:13
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

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Originally Posted by Bongle View Post
I liked the low-physical-defense nature of this year's game. It meant that teams who built a good robot could actually exhibit their hard work semi-freely and worry less about it getting damaged by over-zealous defenders.
I couldn't agree more!!
I have only been involved with FIRST for four seasons now, but I was starting to get disappointed in the direction things were heading. This game was so much better for exactly the reason Bongle mentioned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Qbranch View Post
I loved the game. It had a great autonomous mode that allowed for the simple and the complex to both have a chance, and to be meaningful unlike last year's low-point-value autonomous.

-q
Again, this was another great reason that this game ROCKED!!!
The simplest code could contribute to an Alliance's score and then there were teams like 1114 and 25 that do it all.


I also liked the fact that the most basic, drivable robot could contribute to an alliances score, as well as the opportunity for elite teams to really show their stuff. All around, Overdrive was an excellent game!
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Unread 20-04-2008, 12:20
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

I liked how this year's was accually a game.
Last year's game was more or less a task, even though there was strategy and energy and everything else.
This years game was a lot better...

And as said before, everyone could do something and a rookie team's alliance had made it incredibly far in Atlanta.

Not to mention this years challenge allowed for a lot of different designs,
where as in comparison to last year's game, the basic two types were arm or ramp.

Last edited by Katie_UPS : 20-04-2008 at 12:21. Reason: grammar
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Unread 20-04-2008, 12:36
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

I can almost guarantee that I'll be the only one who says this, but <G22>. The ruling was consistent both between and within almost every event, and was enforced as written. I think the rule did a spectacular job at doing what it aimed. If it was any less strict it would have been either worthless and/or next to impossible to call consistently.
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Unread 20-04-2008, 13:00
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

Like Sean, I'll probably have to disagree with most people. I don't think there was that much less defense in this game written in the rules. Based on the rules, there was really not that much that was changed from last year for defense. The only one was the no contact in their homezone while they were attempting to score, but that was like the on entering the opponents home zone in the last 20 seconds from last year. I'm sure both rules were to protect 'defensiveless' robots, ie those climbing or holding a ball high up with a high center of gravity. I do agree that we saw less defense most of the time (although in Galileo eliminations there was some intense defense), but I argue that is because of the teams deciding not the play defense instead of the rules prohibiting it.

On the topic of defense, I like defense. I think it seperates the elite scorers from the average. Others may think that it just cancells the scores out and becomes a pushing match. If you look at 1114 this year, I'm sure they expected heavy defense and designed thier robot to go against it. They had an amazing pickup in traffic and their 'arm' just about stayed in their bumper zone so they never got intangled with defensive or other robots. I think this is what made 1114 so special this year; there were many scorers who could put up 5-6 hurdles per match but facing defense, other teams problems picking up and were drastically not as effective. So, I think FIRST did a great job in keeping the ability to play defense.

Secondly, as mentioned above, the hybrid mode was great. Everyone could earn points, unlike last year where ramps couldn't. Not only was it easy for everyone could do it, the great teams could do significantly better. Unlike last year, where you could only get 1 tube (unless your 910), in this years game teams got anywhere between 2 and 36 points. If I had a problem with hybrid, it would be that it may have been worth too many points. In alliances with good hybrids, it seemed that just under half thier points came from the 15 second hybrid mode. I don't think it was as bad as 2006, where the team that won autonomous had a much better chance at winning.
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Unread 20-04-2008, 13:02
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
I can almost guarantee that I'll be the only one who says this, but <G22>. The ruling was consistent both between and within almost every event, and was enforced as written. I think the rule did a spectacular job at doing what it aimed. If it was any less strict it would have been either worthless and/or next to impossible to call consistently.
Dunno if I quite agree on the consistency, Sean. How does a robot that hasn't fully crossed any lines get 2 <G22> violations? (And I couldn't see any violations in hybrid, either. Then again, I was watching the webcast.)

Nonetheless, it was an excellent rule. It did bite some teams, but what rule doesn't bite teams from time to time?

Ref consistency was way up from last year, which is a big plus. The ref training course needs to stay.

One other thing--the fact that the FINAL update was released right after Week 1 is good. Many of us can remember when updates were released well into the competition season. Not this year! Also, the updates only making minor changes is good. The biggest change was to <G36>.

A major congratulations to the GDC for an exciting game that was well-written from the start. We would like some more of those, too.
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Unread 20-04-2008, 13:44
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

I adore the GDC. I am in awe of their ability to create interesting games year after year. I've even offered Lavery a 6-pack of donuts to let me even give suggestions to the GDC (don't tell him now, but I'd even go to a whole dozen...).

I thought Overdrive was a pretty good game -- hurdling, laps, herding, and bonus balls at the end. Four scoring ways is about typical in my 4-year's experience (although I wasn't involved much in Rack-and-Roll). The only weakness, ironically, to Overdrive was its NASCAR inspiration. After a while, a bunch of robots all going in the same direction started looking the same. Still, there were brilliant, exciting "plays" that happened, and some images will stick with me. There was one play at Seattle where two very similar robots did nearly identical hurdles at the same time. It was a cool image as the elevator-style robots raced to the overpass wheel-to-wheel to hurdle.

The coolest game this year might have been in FTC -- there were five ways to score, and it was rare to see any one robot that could do all five really well. In retrospect the goal-possession bonus would probably have been better at five points than seven, but other than that "QuadQuandry" was a terrific game. I wonder if QuadQuandry would scale up? Could FRC robots score 12-inch diameter rings made of Schedule 80 PVC?
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Unread 20-04-2008, 14:53
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post
Dunno if I quite agree on the consistency, Sean. How does a robot that hasn't fully crossed any lines get 2 <G22> violations? (And I couldn't see any violations in hybrid, either. Then again, I was watching the webcast.)
I suspect that the refs had a better vantage point of the action, but even if the call was mistaken, it wasn't a wide spread mistake. I attended five events and watched nine different reffing crews (five at championship) and they were very consistent on their calls from my vantage point. Granted, my view of Einstein was pretty awful in terms of <G22>, so I can't comment or even know if there's any debate about the <G22> calls there, but I had great views at the other events. The rule was written without any arbitrary or judgement calls included. Different refs will call ramming/impeding/intentional tipping at different times, but almost every ref will agree on line violations. I'm sure there's a few that slipped by or shouldn't have been called, but this was far less than any other rule from my experience this year.
I hope FIRST continues to write rules that can be clearly called without room for arbitrary debate and individual judgement. It's nice to be able to agree on calls rather than debate them.
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Unread 20-04-2008, 14:56
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
I suspect that the refs had a better vantage point of the action, but even if the call was mistaken, it wasn't a wide spread mistake.
I agree, and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the match. (The robot in question had a broken drive on one side.)
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Unread 20-04-2008, 15:03
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

I thought this years wrap up party was really good. I went 2 years ago (and the previous year before that) and I was far from impressed - to the point I was going to get dinner some place else and just relax at the hotel. This year, I felt it was totally worth going.

I also think everyone in ATL did a great job keeping everything running smoothly despite the damage to the city that was fairly evident.
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Unread 20-04-2008, 23:29
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

I liked the focus on the Chairman's Award team and the announcement early, with VIP seating for the team. Very cool.

The pit layout was good for the space available.

Organized and well done event.
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Unread 21-04-2008, 00:29
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

Phew, another long post...
  • Pit Admin was helpful as always - on shipping, on silly questions, on any feedback or suggestions we had, everything. The volunteers and staff at Pit Admin made this event a breeze for our team.

  • The City of Atlanta was a terrific venue, even with their downtown ripped apart by tornadoes a month prior to the event. I was shocked and saddened to see the damage the city sustained but was incredibly impressed by the helpfulness of the Dome, GWCC, and Omni Staff in making our stay a pleasant one. The fact that a natural disaster (so soon after their State of Emergency water crisis, can't forget that) only slightly, if at all, inconvenienced teams is a testiment to the immense commitment of this city to the FIRST organization.

  • Our team did not purchase the FIRST hotel and party package but did take advantage of the AMAZING offer of $13 tickets to the Georgia Aquarium. Our kids loved it, our mentors ooohed and aaaaahed, and we had more fun doing that together than we had in a long time. Although the food lines were long, we ate afterward instead - it was a small inconvenience totally dwarfed by the fact that we had so much fun for an unbelievable price. Thank you for offering this!

  • I'd like to request Blair Hundertmark and Andy Grady on my field every regional, every event, every year. The two of them are full of excitement and energy and keep you motivated throughout the day. Their enthusiasm is contagious, and even after we had a disappointing Thursday and Friday, Andy made our matches an edge-of-seat event every time. They helped to shape this great experience.

  • MOE's video was amazing. They emphasized the students involved and sent every team in the audience a positive and inspiring message through their involvement. We aspire to be like MOE. I feel their Chairman's video was the best I've seen yet.

  • FIRST has a unique talent for really putting on the big show and making the opening and closing ceremonies exciting. This year was no exception.

  • It was a somber and respectful moment when Mike Wade was posthumously awarded the Volunteer of the Year Award (or whatever they are calling it now). In the face of his passing, it was very appropriate. I know many also caught up with the folks of Rosie to support them after the passing of John Burns, and to see our little community pull together in such sad times is a sign of the strength of our partnership.

  • Every morning I walked to the Dome/GWCC. Every morning myself and my team were greeted by the staff and volunteers. That was a good feeling.

The weather was beautiful, the teams were in good spirits, and everyone was excited for the event - it was a good time to attend Championship. I know there's more, but my brain has shut off from lack of sleep.
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Unread 21-04-2008, 00:57
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

One of the nice things I liked were seeing security guards and food service people at the GWCC/Dome, and the desk people at our hotel all wearing robot pins. My son is a pin freak and he gives away at least 20% of the ones he collects to random folks wherever he goes at an event, but I can tell he isn't the only one.
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Unread 21-04-2008, 01:29
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

One thing I really loved was the traveling NASA machine shop. The machinist' were helpful and very quick at getting parts back to you. I also got to tour the shop in NYC. It is certainly a top notch trailer (of course it's NASA ).
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Unread 21-04-2008, 10:50
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Re: Lesson Learned: The Positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanda Morrison View Post
I'd like to request Blair Hundertmark and Andy Grady on my field every regional, every event, every year. The two of them are full of excitement and energy and keep you motivated throughout the day. Their enthusiasm is contagious, and even after we had a disappointing Thursday and Friday, Andy made our matches an edge-of-seat event every time. They helped to shape this great experience.
I echo this statement 100%, they are my favorite tag team, Blair is my favorite MC (tied with Jeff) and Andy is my favorite announcer.

I agree with Sean, as much as I hate G22, it was called fairly and as written by the rules. Sure I hate it when teams lose due to it, but it's better to call them all than to nit pick about intent or just igonre them.
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