Purchasing the 2009 controller

[chaoticprout]

Originally Posted by Wayne C.

Giving only one and recycling is unacceptable for several reasons-

1. if you intend to develop new teams by lending them old robots that totally shoots that idea in the foot. If you intend to use robots for public relations purposes it also ruins that idea.

2. if the "kit" will cost the same from year to year but you don't get a processor with each one then why not register as a new team and get a rookie kit? Why should the "veteran" teams be denied if they are paying the same price as new rookies.

True- recycling the thing is a neat idea but old robots have lots of good uses and ripping their brains out is simply a brainless idea.

130 lb paperweights- I don't think so.

WC

Ugh, agreed 100%. I hope they reverse this decision.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by chaoticprout

I hope they reverse this decision.

Can someone point me to a link where this decision is mentioned?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

Can someone point me to a link where this decision is mentioned?

Ask, and ye shall receive!
http://first.wpi.edu/2009_FRC_Controller_FAQ_FINAL.pdf
It's the last question (and 2 questions) under Logistics, near the top of Page 3.

[David55]

Originally Posted by EricH

Ask, and ye shall receive!
http://first.wpi.edu/2009_FRC_Controller_FAQ_FINAL.pdf
It's the last question (and 2 questions) under Logistics, near the top of Page 3.

That does not explicitly state that teams won't be receiving a new controller each year. It just says that they will be reusable (as opposed to the IFI RC where we were only allowed to use the current year controller).
I must say their answer is kind of weird since they didn't answer their own question.
I actually understood the opposite from the NI reps who said teams would be getting a new one each year so they could continue using their old robots.

[neoshaakti]

Yeah it did not explicitly state that teams will be reusing old controllers. The passively stated "may" and further added that new components may be used to modify an old controller. Maybe this is kin do like how at the regional, we couldnt use a pre-2004 IFI controller since IFI modified their controller over the years.
Btw, speaking of IFI, do you think the 2008 robot controller will be dramatically reduced in price? I see it as a potential educational tool for our middle schools.

Thanks

[Uberbots]

Only a few hours after initially talking to the NI guys, apparently they may be able to send us some COTS parts- the cRIO amd the PWM, digital IO, and solenoid plugins.

more updates to come...

[jtdowney]

Q: Will I get a new controller in each year’s kit?

A: Because of the ruggedness of CompactRIO, teams will be able to reuse their controller in competition years beyond 2009. However FIRST may decide to introduce new cRIO modules to the system specific to a future year game design.

I think that is a pretty clear answer. We will only get one and that's it and the question right above it states we will only be able to purchase one additional controller each year at the reduced (read comparable to this years) price. A while ago we had to return the control system to FIRST at the end of the year so this isn't as bad as it used to be.

[Danny Diaz]

Yes, the cost of the cRIO-9074 plus the modules is quite significant, so we are not able to provide (read: DONATE) a new cRIO controller to FIRST each and every year. So, you will be required to re-use the cRIO for multiple years - though new (read: ADDITIONAL/SUPPLEMENTARY) cRIO modules may be given to teams in their KOP if new modules are required or are advantageous. Teams who want a new controller each year will be required to purchase a new unit plus modules at the incredibly discounted cost.

-Danny

[Wayne C.]

Originally Posted by David55

That does not explicitly state that teams won't be receiving a new controller each year. It just says that they will be reusable (as opposed to the IFI RC where we were only allowed to use the current year controller).
I must say their answer is kind of weird since they didn't answer their own question.
I actually understood the opposite from the NI reps who said teams would be getting a new one each year so they could continue using their old robots.

Actually the rep I spoke to personally told me that the inserts would change from year to year but you only get the base once.

I would like to know how "heavily reduced" the price of the system will be for the offer to sell a "second controller" to a team each year? Does that imply we would get a new controller each year?

Or- to put it bluntly- does anyone actually know the facts here?

WC

[jtdowney]

The only hard facts you will see are in the FAQ at http://first.wpi.edu/2009_FRC_Controller_FAQ_FINAL.pdf other then that what you will get from most of us is what we were told at the NI booth in Atlanta.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by Wayne C.

I would like to know how "heavily reduced" the price of the system will be for the offer to sell a "second controller" to a team each year? Does that imply we would get a new controller each year?

The NI rep we spoke with at the Championship told us that the cost has not yet been finalized, but that they were working to get it "near to the cost of the existing system" when discounted. The current system costs about $1200, so maybe the cost of the new system will be in the $1200-1500 range, but I suppose some people could define $2000 as being "near to $1200" too...

Frankly I don't understand how FIRST can possibly claim that they are not increasing the cost of the program. To get the same equipment that we currently get each year (since we, like many teams, really like to keep our old robots functional), we're going to have to spend an additional amount of money (likely $1000+) each year. If we choose not to spend this money, we get LESS than what we get now. How is that not raising the cost?

A different NI rep also told us that the software for the system is not done yet and will not be complete until sometime in the fall, so we may not see availability of this stuff anytime soon.

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

A different NI rep also told us that the software for the system is not done yet and will not be complete until sometime in the fall, so we may not see availability of this stuff anytime soon.

Yes, this is correct. Especially the C/C++ development module is not complete, plus training materials and other items. Definitely don't expect anything to be made available until the fall at a minimum.

-Danny

[Jon236]

Originally Posted by Danny Diaz

Yes, this is correct. Especially the C/C++ development module is not complete, plus training materials and other items. Definitely don't expect anything to be made available until the fall at a minimum.

-Danny

Thanks for clarifying things Danny. Since 'the Real Thing' won't be available till fall, I'm trying to work out a strategy of teaching our team Labview. Looking at the material available at ni.com/community/first there doesn't seem to be much beyond "Getting Started With Labview".

In addition, those of us who have been using Labview as a great lab instrument need to train up to programming the actuator outputs. This material should be available now, since we will be using a COTS unit.

What would you recommend as a tutorial training sequence to start now?

Thanks again in advance.

[jtdowney]

In the past the $1100 bought you a new RC and OI as well as the radios. I wonder if the comparably priced extra cRIO will come with the modules, an additional drivers station and wireless system or if it will just be the cRIO base unit.

[Adam Y.]

Originally Posted by jtdowney

In the past the $1100 bought you a new RC and OI as well as the radios. I wonder if the comparably priced extra cRIO will come with the modules, an additional drivers station and wireless system or if it will just be the cRIO base unit.

That would be kind of odd because the base unit's academic price is all ready cheaper than the RC and IO. The chasis costs $ 689.77 for an academic institution.