Galileo Division 2008

[jasper.s.jacobs]

[quote=Zflash;740428]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

Great time on Galileo. We recorded every point scored by every team and these were the results:

[code]
Team Avg Contribution
1114 87.2
195 56.4
469 56.3
25 54
121 49.2 254 49.2
330 49
103 47.6
217 46.8
40 39.6 1319 39.6

Being in the top 10 in avg contributiuon scores and not getting picked; shocked 1319 to some extent. This was our fifth year and we were aware that it could occur because anything can happen at these things. Does anyone have any suggegestions as to how we can prevent this from happening again.

many teams in the top 8 alliances were nowhere close to the top avg score contributors. average score is bs... so is the ranking score which promotes lack of competition by giving more to points to teams who beat teams by less. A good team can choose not to play defense to let their opponents score more so that they can achieve a higher ranking

[Cascade]

Originally Posted by BoyWithCape195

Yes, I am not disagreeing with you on that. The score, pre penalties, was altered though. With the DQ, they removed all the points that 40 had scored during that match. The 48 points was the amount scored by 195 and 330 only.

Something similar happened to us during a quarter final match in LA. We were disqualified for lifting the overpass off the ground some four-six inches. Apparently this caused some cables to be yanked as well. They tried to e-stop us somehow us but it failed. What they did do was deduct all points we scored after the point of disqualification and this contributed to our alliance loosing the match.

I wonder, then, if this was really the case with Team 40 and the DQ was so early in the match it caused all points to be deducted because they had not scored yet?

[Cascade]

[quote=jasper.s.jacobs;740762]

Originally Posted by Zflash

many teams in the top 8 alliances were nowhere close to the top avg score contributors. average score is bs... so is the ranking score which promotes lack of competition by giving more to points to teams who beat teams by less. A good team can choose not to play defense to let their opponents score more so that they can achieve a higher ranking

On the other hand, with all the penalties this year and so many matches decided by penalties, a team playing too much defense may have wished for more offense after the score was posted as a buffer against penalties. Your premise is correct; however, depending on the game maybe a costly idea.

[Steve W]

Even when a team is DQ'ed they can still score points for the alliance. As Karthik said there is no way to see who scored what at the end of the match. The score will continue to add because the DQ is called at the end of the match if at all. When the refs have discussed and agree on the DQ a red card is shown and the DQ recorded. If they decide on a yellow card or no card, then the points would have to have been counted. The only time the team can't score is when they are disabled.

[Zflash]

[quote=jasper.s.jacobs;740762]

Originally Posted by Zflash

many teams in the top 8 alliances were nowhere close to the top avg score contributors. average score is bs... so is the ranking score which promotes lack of competition by giving more to points to teams who beat teams by less. A good team can choose not to play defense to let their opponents score more so that they can achieve a higher ranking

Every one of our loss matches were relatively close in score. Our team never played defense because we were always asked to play offense by the alliance. I am curious as to why you would say that average contribution score is bs. What other easy way is there to judge a team by there contribution to any alliance they are paired with. I realize that if you play a good match with a team then you are likely to want to chose them. My question is how does a team that can contribute points that the top 10 teams are contributing get chosen for an alliance of teams they have not played with which is very likely in a field of 86.

[65_Xero_Huskie]

The issue with having your average score being high and not being picked is something you shouldnt take into consideration. The alliance selection has so many things that are determined before it happens that score doesnt mean everything. At one point our team was 0-4, but our rank score was 60.50 because we lost our matches 106-94, 96-84, etc. If they went by rank score people would find that the order of teams would have been different. Its all on the teams that are seeded in the top 8, They have won the right to choose who they want, and i say people should not question who they pick to be on their team.

[Zflash]

Let me start out by saying that everyone who was picked in our division or any other division for that matter totally deserves to be there. As I originally stated we knew of the possibility of not getting picked. Some teams spoke with us about picking us but it just didn't happen. We still had a great season. However no one has answered my question and maybe there isn't an exact answer. How do teams expose themselves to the other 85 teams in hopes of being picked. Any suggestions on that topic would be great.

[CzarValvador]

[quote=Zflash;740928]

Originally Posted by jasper.s.jacobs

Every one of our loss matches were relatively close in score. Our team never played defense because we were always asked to play offense by the alliance. I am curious as to why you would say that average contribution score is bs. What other easy way is there to judge a team by there contribution to any alliance they are paired with. I realize that if you play a good match with a team then you are likely to want to chose them. My question is how does a team that can contribute points that the top 10 teams are contributing get chosen for an alliance of teams they have not played with which is very likely in a field of 86.

Because, like I said already, Average contribution score does not take in consideration the little nuances that happen during the actual matches. Contribution score can be altered by another team tipping your robot, the other team completely shutting you down with defense, and many other unexpected events.

Average contribution also ignores any defensive robot that managed to "prevent" team scoring.


There are many factors that decide the quality of play, and contribution points may be one of them, but it is definitely not the main one.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Cascade

I wonder, then, if this was really the case with Team 40 and the DQ was so early in the match it caused all points to be deducted because they had not scored yet?

And, it was late in the match. Maybe as many as 30 seconds left to play.

But 90 points in penalties is something you can't exactly argue with either.

[Cascade]

Originally Posted by EricH

And, it was late in the match. Maybe as many as 30 seconds left to play.

But 90 points in penalties is something you can't exactly argue with either.

Thanks, Eric for the timing clarification. 90 points in penalties... OUCH! Can't wait to see the video.

[Tapoore]

Videos are up on SOAP now.

Thanks again SOAP!

[Marc P.]

Originally Posted by EricH

And, it was late in the match. Maybe as many as 30 seconds left to play.

But 90 points in penalties is something you can't exactly argue with either.

The match was Semi-Final 1 Match 2- when 1114 goes over, there were still 47 seconds left. The video has a pretty good shot of what actually happened-

195 was in the corner locking down 2 red trackballs. 1114 was attempting to gain access to one of the red trackballs, when 40 came around into the blue home stretch, perpendicular to 1114. 40 tried to push through the traffic jam created by 1114 and 195 battling it out for the trackballs. 1114 tilted up on to 40's chasis because of the blue trackball in 40's arm pushing high inside the bumper zone. With 1114 beached on top of 40, 40 continued to push forward without backing up, and 1114 went over.

http://video.soap108.com/2008/gal/gal_sf1m2.wmv

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by T3_1565

40 also raises their arm after noticing that 1114 was tipping

or because they were moving towards the overpass trying to hurdle...

Either is possible, but don't assume.

[Corey Balint]

Originally Posted by T3_1565

40 also raises their arm after noticing that 1114 was tipping

You could question that. There are a few different ways to look at it. Some people say it clearly warrants the DQ, some are on the fence, some are highly against it.


To me...when I first saw it, I saw 1114 going after the ball that 195 was blocking in (I'm not a fan of the blocking the ball in the corner strategy, but it works...sometimes), then 40 gets their ball caught under 1114's shooter as they come around the corner. They continue to lift up their shooter even though 1114 is clearly tipping, then they drive forward.
I see that as a DQ myself and I'm not one to call for DQ's.

If 40 didn't push forward/had started their hurdle earlier, I would have said it was 1114's fault and just went on scores (which still had 1114's alliance winning). However, that is what happened, and you have to deal with it. The Refs made the call they thought was right and took the time they needed to, to decide the true outcome. The Refs played this one the right way.

That was an exciting match though. A great showing by 195's alliance. I don't think anyone could have seen 195 playing ball defense the whole match if predicting what may happen. Looked like some nerves got into the drivers though...it was unlike 330 to get so many penalties in a match..their driver is one of the best in the Nation.

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

or because they were moving towards the overpass trying to hurdle...

Either is possible, but don't assume.

I never said they did it on purpose I will change the wording.. sorry

I only meant it as it helped in the knocking over process, they wouldn't of been able to ram 1114 over without the arm pushing up at the very top of the simbot