Thoughts on Overdrive

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by AndyB

The fact that there was really only one objective in the game was a large turnoff to me. However, this simple game really did help non-FIRST spectators understand and enjoy the event.

Overdrive wasn't as good as 07, 06, or 04.

Only one objective? I can count four completely different ways to score in Overdrive, as compared to '07 (one and a half), '06 (two and a half) or '05 (three and a half) [I consider climbing a ramp or simply driving your robot to a certain location at the end of the game as halves]. The variation in robot design is far greater than last year's game, and I would argue the drive trains/manipulators used in OD are the most elegant across the board, as compared to past years' designs.

The pits seemed to be a much friendlier place - a horde of workers fixing a broken robot was not nearly as commonplace as it has been in the past. People could walk around, check out different designs, and ask questions without fear of getting in the way or impeding progress. I think this was due largely to the monodirectional and mostly offensive-minded flow of the game. While defense did play a large part in the game (moreso than most people realize), the damage inflicted was not nearly as destructive as in the past.

One thing I think could be improved was the Hybrid mode. While the concept was cool (controlling the robot with a TV remote), the physical size of the game and arena made it so the majority of spectators missed out on that feature. Also, depending on the robot's orientation, sometimes the lap counters interfered with the IR receiver. I understand that's all part of the game challenge and there are ways around it, but when trying to make the non-teleoperated period rookie-friendly, there's no need to throw in extra difficulties.

[ttldomination]

I liked overdrive,

It separated the field from a bot that was just there and didn't fulfill it's job compared to one which was really great. The "unsatisfactory" robots did not win. And if you look at teams that had success, 27, 1114, 217, and countless others, they had good robots.

Defense was less of a factor and it really depended on how good was your robot.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

I liked overdrive,

It separated the field from a bot that was just there and didn't fulfill it's job compared to one which was really great. The "unsatisfactory" robots did not win. And if you look at teams that had success, 27, 1114, 217, and countless others, they had good robots.

Defense was less of a factor and it really depended on how good was your robot.

I saw plenty of matches where robots were carried to the top of the ranking this year.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I saw plenty of matches where robots were carried to the top of the ranking this year.

Just like every season, there are invariably some teams that work into an alliance captain slot with a decent (if unspectacular) robot that had a lot of luck in qualifying. Almost invariably, those teams are weeded out by the time all is said and done.

Sincerely,

3-0 with the TechTigers in '07, 0-3 against the TechTigers in '07.

[ktbcantrell]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

I liked overdrive,

It separated the field from a bot that was just there and didn't fulfill it's job compared to one which was really great. The "unsatisfactory" robots did not win. And if you look at teams that had success, 27, 1114, 217, and countless others, they had good robots.

Defense was less of a factor and it really depended on how good was your robot.

Defense was definately a factor this year... not so much a straight pushing match like last year but there were many teams that incoprorated completely defensive strategies.... Keeping the trackballs away from the good hurdling robots and blocking them from making their way around the track was a huge componet of this years game... And yes pushing was also very evident this year to from my observations..

I never once saw a robot politely bump another and then wait for 6 seconds in order to pass LOL ..

I thought this years game was very fun for hurdling teams because every match was a battle not only to hurdle but also to aquire and to maneuver around the track. 6 robots + 4 track balls = very full track...

[lingomaniac88]

The worst thing that happened with our team is that we didn't know that the trackball would have no "give." Because of that, we threw away several good ideas.

[jax1488]

to me, overdrive wasnt all that bad. better than 07 and 05

but the best years in a top three form

1=2006
2=2003
3=2004

these years had mutiple ways of scoring and a VERY exciting form of gameplay, always with some kind of struggle involved that made teams scream even more for their robot

what the games need is some form of struggle in them or something that robots have to fight over

in 06= you had to stop the opposing alliance from gaining balls or scoring

in 03= that ramp was soooooo hard to fight over, people would go crazy as the time ticked by and their robot was pushing to get on

in 04= robots who could hang on the bar always fought of who would get on. it was always a struggle to seee who would get up on it. so exciting to see that

again, this is just my opinion haha. =D

[sgreco]

In Overdrive the better alliance almost always won. Obviously the better alliance will win most of the time in any game, but we defintitely didn't see as many upsets in overdrive as we usually do.

[israel354]

overdrive was boring but kind exciting. The whole game was just left turns and hurdling or herding the ball. The most exciting part was the ball hurdling, boy the crowd went crazy.

[gunsanbob]

Compared to the other years' games Overdrive is BEST I MEAN BEST I like the fast robots going round the track like Racecars, but it's no fun if u lose by penlaties

[artdutra04]

At the beginning of the season, I thought the game had promise and I was excited; then a few weeks in I realized how boring the matches were going to be, as you were going to have a limited number of nearly identical robot designs. I did like the downplayed role of bash-em-to-bits defense, and the advent of "smarter" defense.

Here's just a whole bunch of random ideas for improving the game. Some are more feasible (and better) than others, but I'm just throwing them all on the wall to see what sticks. Or if you prefer Dean's lingo, it's time to kiss some frogs.

• A "golden trackball" type of thing which could have been scoreable (only as a hurdle) by either alliance.
• More diversity of playing field objects, a la FIRST Frenzy. Add in some mobile goals, or 20" balls. With three robots per alliance, the possibilities of "specialized" robots would be even cooler than it was back in 2004.
• What if the entire overpass was a teeter-totter (with about 10 degrees of motion), and if you had more trackballs over your homestretch at the end of the match (thus causing it to tip towards you), you can get a multiplier bonus.
• A launching ramp for Dukes of Hazzard style driving. Or even just speed bumps.
• A Red/Blue target light at each trackball position, which would light up as the color of trackball there at the start of the match for CMUcam autonomous navigation.
• Modification of G22 to only count FULLY crossing the lane markers in the clockwise direction as a penalty.
• Elimination round matches are to be played in the opposite direction (CW) than qualification matches (CCW).
• A variable-length autonomous mode. At the very minimum, it starts as ten seconds. But for every five/ten seconds extra you leave your robot in autonomous, the point value of all maneuvers completed autonomously double. (Of course, this will only work if the real-time lane marker sensors had been working...)
• A REAL HUMAN PLAYER POSITION.

[Rick TYler]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

[*]A launching ramp (...)Or even just speed bumps.

Either of these would be a really interesting game element. Or even both: a 6-inch high ramp on the left hand lane and a 3-inch speed bump on the right. Woo hoo!

[Drwurm]

This year I went to 4 regionals and 1 championship.

One of the biggest complaints I was hearing all year was bad reffing. I didn't see so much bad reffing, as inadequate reffing. There were far too many things going on at once to try and call every penalty.

I saw blatant out of bumper zone contact never called because the refs were too busy trying to see if a bot would G22.

In another situation, a robot parked sideways in front of us and "pinned" us against a finish line. We backed up to get around the bot and incurred a G22 from a ref. From this ref's POV, we had simply gone over the line (he couldn't see the other robot in front of us). The ref that would have called impeding on the robot in front of us was busy watching another potential G22 occurring in another part of the field. Situations like this plagued every regional I was at.

There was simply way too much going on at one time in this game for the refs to deal with. If the refs are going to be required to look for so many things, some sort of instant replay MUST be included.

Now to the game itself.

Hybrid mode is an awesome idea with great potential. However, I was dissatisfied with the communication to the robots (IR). In later years, it would be nice if the hybrid commands were sent directly to the robot via the OI->RC system so that we didn't have to deal with bazooka remotes and IR diode arrays.

I didn't like the fact that all the goals in this game were based off of a similar task. Last year there were 2 completely unrelated tasks, which lent a little more to the alliance strategy. This year every alliance was clear. 2 great hurdlers, 1 defender favorably with ball knocking or some hurdling capability.

Also, I should ask how many devoted lap bots you saw in the finals. None-ish? This is because the 2 points awarded for a single lap is completely drowned out by hurdling. All bots that would have otherwise been lapping were playing defense on the hurdlers. Even 148, a bot designed to make laps reverted to defense(impressive I might add).

The point is, these laps made little difference to the actual score of the match since the bots hurdling simultaneously make laps. If FIRST is going to make other objectives count, they need to put more value on these objectives and make them specialized and unique from the main objective.

Also, the field was far too constricted this year. This would be a much faster game if robots had more room to pass and move around. I believe speed and constant movement were 2 of the goals FIRST was aiming for this year, so in retrospect, a larger field would have been better.

Bumping to pass????L-O-L. nough said.

What I liked about 2007 was that every robot on an alliance could accomplish the main task. Unfortunately, since this year had only 2 game pieces per alliance, one robot had to sit out. What I did not like about 2007 was that having such a central scoring structure led to huge pushing matches just to score a couple ringers in the finals. So in that aspect, FIRST did a good job this year, separating the scoring zones for each alliance.

Endgame was very exciting, even more so than last year in some cases. This clincher play excitement really made some of the matches for me.

What I would like to see in 2009:

Less penalty potential

Hybrid (with a bit stronger comm link)

Enough game pieces so every robot can have at least one

Separated scoring zones (This does not mean completely separated robots. I love defense.)

A strong secondary goal that has no relation to the primary goal

Endgame excitement!

[lingomaniac88]

The concept of hybrid mode was a cool idea. Unfortunately, some IR boards did not work at the regionals... there were probably better ways (as in besides infrared) for the robocoach to communicate with the robot.

For the human player:
Perhaps the human player could actually go onto the field and play like a robot! In the case of this year, the human player would run around the track and move the trackballs themselves. With disabling the robots as a safety measure, of course.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by lingomaniac88

The concept of hybrid mode was a cool idea. Unfortunately, some IR boards did not work at the regionals... there were probably better ways (as in besides infrared) for the robocoach to communicate with the robot.

For the human player:
Perhaps the human player could actually go onto the field and play like a robot! In the case of this year, the human player would run around the track and move the trackballs themselves. With disabling the robots as a safety measure, of course.

This would never happen. Its a robotics competition first and people would get injured like crazy. Imagine a robot playing defense on a human player.
End result: Not pretty!