OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by robostangs548

I mean, isn't that all part of the fun, i think that it is pretty awesome working under a ton of pressure with the "hype" up music blaring in the background and the crouds cheering.... I would have to say, that without the loud music, the competitions would be much less interesting....

It'll be much less interesting in 20 years when you can't hear anything.

[Eugene Fang]

I dont know if this is true for the other fields, but on Curie, the music/commentary wasn't too bad. However, the field sounds (like the starting sound, bell, ending buzzer, etc) were VERY loud. I think it was worse in the stands than on the competition floor because the bottom of the J shaped speakers point right at the front row of seats.

[SmartAlek]

Are you talking about the sound level in the pit area or out where the fields were?

I honestly think it would be too difficult to try to control the volume in the pits. You could barely hear the Pit Admins announcements. So I think it would be safe to guess that most of the sound came from people working on robots and talking. And I find it hard to imagine Safety people walking around from pit to pit asking people to keep their voices down or to stop using noisy tools on their robots...

[Ashley Christine]

I would say I noticed that some of the fields were pretty loud (from in the stands) but when I was down on the field it was no where near as loud, it might be from how they set up the speakers. On Saturday my aunt and uncle came to visit and after about 15 min of watching their first robotics competition they both requested that we go elsewhere because their ears just couldn't take the loud noise. I agree, this does need to be addressed! (maybe better monitors on the fields?) And it was disappointing that you couldn't hear team cheers!!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Ashley Christine

I would say I noticed that some of the fields were pretty loud (from in the stands) but when I was down on the field it was no where near as loud, it might be from how they set up the speakers. On Saturday my aunt and uncle came to visit and after about 15 min of watching their first robotics competition they both requested that we go elsewhere because their ears just couldn't take the loud noise. I agree, this does need to be addressed! (maybe better monitors on the fields?) And it was disappointing that you couldn't hear team cheers!!

Yeah, I've noticed that. On the field, you can't hear anything...the speakers are aimed away from the field. I've had people leave after a few minutes, too.

Put some monitors out in the crowd with volunteers. That'll give you better data than having them on the field. 1-3 volunteers with monitors...

[JYang]

Working as a translator for an FLL team, the sound level was def. very high on the Einstein field. The team could barely hear what the translators were saying and just talking to the refs on the other side of the table you had to shout. I don't think that's good for the ears or the throat.

On the other hand, the noise level in the pits (FLL and FRC) were fine. Overall, the sound is keeping the spirit up in the stands but it can be toned down a lot. Surely the event can still be fun with noise levels that our grandmothers can withstand all day right?

[zachjo]

when I was one of the students in the "waiting to get an award section" in front of Einstein I thought is was amazingly loud. The only thing I wanted was for the matches to get over so I could leave to a quieter place.

[OScubed]

Originally Posted by zachjo

when I was one of the students in the "waiting to get an award section" in front of Einstein I thought is was amazingly loud. The only thing I wanted was for the matches to get over so I could leave to a quieter place.

Nice to hear it's not just us old farts

[Al Skierkiewicz]

To bring this around again and introduce some added info...
1. Check out http://www.kellrobotics.org/files/Sound_2008.pdf where there is some data taken during the Championship. Please note the 6-8dB average to peak readings. This is about the amount of compression audio mixers employee to keep the average level sounding loud.
2. Long exposure to high level sound casues temporary threshold shift. (i.e. loud today doesn't sound as loud as yesterday)
3. OHSHA standards look at weighted (filtered) data averaged over time (8hr/day, 5 day week). They recognize 85dBA as loud and 90dBA as harmful repetitive exposure requiring hearing protection.
4. Noise above certain levels causes permanent damage. i.e. A nerve is damaged beyond repair or a sensor will give false data forever (ringing).
5. In the real world, speaker systems do not cover a sound field with uniform sound level. Those in direct line with the front of the speaker array usually will experience the highest sound level. Sound designers on occassion will use "fill" speakers to cover a difficult area like that directly beneath the main array.
6. Speakers on the floor are usually sub woofers which reproduce sound below the frequency response of the A weighting filter and are therefore not included in the data. They move a lot of air and do seem to move clothing when standing nearby but do not contribute significantly to hearing loss at normal levels. They do allow you to "feel" the music though.
7. It is evident from the data, that levels jumped during cheering and matches.
I think it is evident that there is an issue with high levels during some parts of the day and average levels are on the borderline of needing hearing protection. That does require some action to be taken in my opinion. Overall levels could be reduced by a few dB and certainly levels could be reduced during those times that cheering takes place so as to not disrupt the overall feel of the competition but hearing is somewhat protected. For those who will spend a lot of time in the stands please encourage hearing protection of some kind during the day. McMaster Carr has a fine selection of disposable protectors. I keep part number 9159T5 headphone types for comfortable everyday/all day protection and 54725T32 disposable for short periods like camera and floor people during Soundstage tapings.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

OSHA stands for Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which is primarily focused with safety levels at work.

Yes, and many of the field personnel and working and therefore OSHA is directly relevant. This includes volunteers.

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

The way I see it is a better approach if you are worried about the sound is to just bring earplugs. Or if you want to promote safety hand out earplugs.

I do bring earplugs, and team 1676 does hand them out. I can't stand the volume without them, honestly

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

What ever happened to "If it's too loud then you are too old"

Sorry, this just sounds irresponsible. For a 3 hour concert, OK, but for a 3 day event, if it is too loud, then it is too loud.

The next steps would be for teams to carefully monitor sound levels and report their findings, be sure to use a decent instrument (cost about $100 or more) and take careful notes of the placement fo the sensor. Then we can compare notes to determine IF there really is a porbelm or not. If there is a problem, I am sure it can be managed.


Don

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[johnr]

Wow, this thread really hits home for me. I was in light construction for thirty years. Just power saws and airguns. Now i am 48 and wearing two hearing aids.Wish i knew then what i know now.
Lets say you really like robotics and you get lucky and join a team that goes to two regionals and nationals every year.Your brother is on the team so you get to tag along in 8th grade and you come back your first year of college. So that works out to 42 days of comps or 336 hours of noise. Add in working in shop and off season events. I would say getting some hearing damage is a good possiblity. Remember, just a little damage early in life can come back to bite you later. Protect your hearing just like you protect your eyes.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

6. Speakers on the floor are usually sub woofers which reproduce sound below the frequency response of the A weighting filter and are therefore not included in the data. They move a lot of air and do seem to move clothing when standing nearby but do not contribute significantly to hearing loss at normal levels. They do allow you to "feel" the music though.

Thanks for the clarification. If you say it's not going to bust my eardrums, I'll believe you.

Johnr, just about everyone I know that lost their hearing says the same thing. They wish they would've known back then what they do now. We've got thousands and thousands of students, not to mention the younger spectators or the older ones. Protecting them now will save a lot of hassle in their later years.

[MegaSparks]

If everyone on this thread takes the time to measure and record the sound levels at every event we are at this year like our team did last year. We can present a case to FIRST that the noise levels are indeed to loud at these events. Some key elements that have to be recorded to make the reading valid are:
1 – Calibration date and recalibration date on the measuring device.
2 – Placement of the device
3 – Time schedule for taking the reading (Once every hour on the hour or every 15 minutes). Readings can not just be taken at the loudest times. There has to be a plan in place and you have to stick to the plan.
4 – Record the serial number, model number and manufacturer of the device and the scale that is used for all readings.
5 – If there is training for the usage of the device this also has to be recorded as being taken by the person who is using the device.

If everyone takes action to record the findings we can present a case with data to FIRST. Maybe just the sight of sound measuring equipment at the events might cause some events to turn down the equipment.

[EricVanWyk]

After watching a few matches, I'll retreat for a bit to let the sound headache subside. I do wish I could stay longer.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

You are going to have to add some additional specifications for this test to be meaningful. Taking measurements during a match with large teams (or near a cheering team) is going to be a lot different than between match music and announcements. Venue size, shape, and accoustics are also going to be a challenge.