[YMTC]: Who should go to the championship?

[fatjoe3833]

Congratulations! Your team has just won the Anytown Regional, a week 5 event. The team is very excited about the possibility of going to the championship. Despite the limited amount of time between the regional and the championship, you (the team leader) are able to convince a sponsor to make an additional donation in order to cover the registration fee and travel expenses for five team members to go. You have not been able to secure any more funding and now it is time to select who will go. Well, the drive team has to go and they take up four spots. Now you have one remaining spot and have narrowed down your decision to two candidates from your electrical sub-team:

Sam is a high school senior and this is his third year on the team. Over the last few years, he has developed an extensive knowledge of the electrical system. During the build season, he put in about 10 to 20 hours per week. However, he is a bit of a slacker and tends to talk more than he works. Several other team members feel that Sam should go because he is a senior and this will be his last opportunity to go to the championship as a student team member.

Jim is a high school freshman and this is his first year on the team. He is very interested in electronics and is just as knowledgeable as Sam when it comes to the electrical system. Jim is one of the team's most dedicated and hardest working members. During the build season, he put in about 50 to 60 hours per week. Some team members feel that Jim should not go because he is only a freshman and will have several more opportunities to go the championship. However, there is no guarantee that the team will be able to go to the championship again in the future. Other students feel that Jim may become discouraged if he is not selected. He may feel as if he is not appreciated and then decide to quit the team.

Who should go to the championship?

[Branden Ghena]

Jim should go to championship unless Sam has never gone to Atlanta before.

Reasoning: Jim is the harder worker and put more effort into the team, therefore he deserves the spot. Atlanta isn't something to be missed, however, and if Sam has never been able to go before, he should be allowed on this, his last chance.

[DonRotolo]

The post above summarizes my thoughts about this one almost perfectly. Jim is the one who put in the time, he gets the reward. Sorry Sam, but just showing up every other day doesn't get a robot built - senior or not.

This is predicated on the assertion that both students are at least equally knowledgeable about the electrical system, and other robot systems are covered adequately. Although not one of the choices, if Tadd, knew enough about electronics and the drivetrain and could make his way around programming too, and the drive team happened to be excellent drivers but gibbering idiots when it comes to anything about the robot, then Tadd is who has to be there. But, again, this wasn't one of the choices.

Don

[tennispro9911]

You work hard to earn the opportunity to go. Jim should. Senior shouldn't mean a ton. That said, every member should at the very least have the opportunity to pay their own way to the competition and sam would have an opportunity to go, regardless.

[AndyB]

Jim should go. He put in more work and in the end, he earned it.

[EricH]

Definitely Jim. You work, you go. Given that Jim and Sam know about the same amount about the electrical system in general, the one who worked on it more is more likely to know the ins and outs. That is Jim in this case.

However, who is more mature/reliable? That is also something to consider. By the amount of time, Jim is more reliable. By other factors, it's an unknown.

Senior trips are nice, but not necessary. Atlanta doesn't have to be experienced as a student.

In fact, one mentor (the drive coach) will have to go. Unless the team's school is extremely permissive, one or more adults must be present. So Sam will probably have a chance again as a mentor.

Or, Sam pays his own way. That would be ideal to expose the most students--each student who doesn't have a free pass (drive and one other) pays his or her own way to Atlanta if they want to go.

Here's what I would call: Jim gets the paid trip. Sam and any other student who wants to go can go, but will have to pay for travel and other expenses on his own.

[Zyik]

Jim should go. Jim put in more work during the season. If Sam is more of a talker, he might distract the drive team more then he would help the robot.

However, how mature is Jim? If he's the kind that would leave just because he didn't get to go, what does that say about him? Has Sam got to go to Championships before?

Ideally, give Jim the free trip and see if Sam can raise the funds himself, or pay his own way, to Atlanta. If Sam can't, still take Jim. He who does the most work and is the most valuable gets to go. Senior status should only be used as a tie breaker, if used at all.

[Pavan Dave]

Depends on what you mean by talking... Since Sam is a "good talker" maybe he would be perfect to talk to judges about certain specific features that could qualify the team for a controls award?

I'm just playing devil's advocate.


The Robonauts used to have this thing called "the Room'. Throughout the build and post build you had to prove yourself to get in the room. You had to be in the room to be a driver, a captain, or any position. This made everybody step it up a notch to get into the room. The thing was, you had to keep up your attitude, your contribution, etc. to stay in the room. It was great because the decision of who was in the room was based solely on what the mentors thought because they were the ones who worked with the students. I'd say if they made it into "the room" then they go. I'd also put priorities first. If we needed to win an award to prove to some people (administration) to keep the funding and/or to get more/sustain funding I would stick to the guy who can talk walls around the judges and impress them.

As for performance, anybody can perform if there is the right motivation. For some people its people pushing them to the limit and for others its the prize in the end. You need to find that before you rule anyone out because there are many solutions to reach a common goal, just take a look around in Atlanta.


Pavan


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[Dan Petrovic]

I say Jim should go because our team feels it is incredibly important to have the younger members involved as much as possible.

Our pit crew constisted of three seniors and three freshmen this year. If you have a strong year, but fail to train the younger students, that glory will be shortlived when your talented members are gone the following year.

Additionally, since seniority isn't a factor on our team, the one who put in more time would be the one to go.

[Taylor]

Talk about culture change. High school is all about Senior Privilege; the common view is that in many ways, seniors have earned the right to coast. Senioritis is not only condoned, it is celebrated. Seniors often get the glory for the work done by underclassmen.
That being said, take Jim. What can I say? I'm a sheep.

I don't think any other HS team/club/organization would have the same thought process that this thread has shown. FIRST: Changing the culture of America, one teenager at a time.

[JoshD]

I personally believe that the people that do the most/best work should be the ones that go. This was pretty much our situation this year, except for the fact that we didn't go to compete. However, instead of having someone from the team choose who got to go, we had the representative from our sponsor, who knew the people on the team and how they worked, choose who would go. But that was because they were paying for everything.

[dlavery]

We have a very simple philosophy on our team: everyone goes, or no one goes.*

First and foremost, Jim and Sam are members of a team. The team needs to act together and support the activities of the entire team - not just a subset of the members. Everyone on the team will share in the success of the performance on the robot. Everyone on the team will be responsible for the problems that will be encountered, and the development of solutions. Likewise, the entire team - not just the drive sub-team - should be able to reap the benefits of going to the additional competition.

The only acceptable answer is that the team needs to do additional fund raising and get enough resources for all the participants on the team to go to the event. Then they all go, Sam and Jim included. Otherwise, the team takes a pass on the additional competition.

There will be several who will say this is an unreasonable and you can't get the funds to send the entire team. I disagree. This year we happened to win the RCA at the New York City regional and thereby qualify for the Championships. We were not originally planning to go to Atlanta, but didn't want to pass up on this opportunity. Unfortunately, because we never planned to go to Atlanta, we didn't have the budget for it. And since we qualified during the last weekend of the regional competition season, we only had five days to raise about $20,000 for the registration and travel expenses for the entire team. With an enormous amount of effort and an all-out mad rush to fund-raise, we were able to pull it off and offer the opportunity to go to Atlanta to everyone on the team. It can be done.

-dave


* assuming all the students meet whatever minimum performance standards the team/school has set to permit them to go on team trips (minimum grades, meeting attendance, participation level, etc.)
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[Joe Matt]

I agree with Dave but in a different respect: the team decides who they are. Nobody can decide for them what to do, if they enact what I call the "unit rule", where the team represents itself as a whole, or if they want to bring Sam, hurray, or Jim, hurray.

Now, personally if the team had to choose between those two, I'd chose Jim.

[chessking132]

Jim he put in allot of hard work and he deserves it. it will also keep him motivated for the next three years.

After my first trip to Atlanta as a freshmen i was hocked on FIRST and will probably be for the rest of my life. Atlanta is just such a great experience.

Matthew Simpson
Team 75 Driver

[Wayne C.]

Throw this wrench into the mix-

the most students a hotel room will allow in any of the Steele Meeting hotels is 4 per room. The fifth person presents a problem. You also assume all the students are the same sex.

So it seems to me that the money for the 5 to travel be split up for at least 8 students and that they should pay for the rest of the cost of their trip.

As for Jim and Sam- Jim deserves to go. That much is clear. Our team involves the kids earning a spot for each year, just like earning a spot on a football squad. Sam had 3 years to step up and work. Did he?

It would be great if everybody would work equally hard and we would have oodles of funds for all to travel. If all worked to the utmost we would have that support. They ALL can go to our local event where the travel costs are lower. But logistically to take 60+ kids to Atlanta and keep them out of trouble, fed, transported and amused is a major undertaking that some insist on abusing. And if they aren't working for the team we really need to ask are they really a part of that team?

I am reminded of a CD quote from years ago- "sometimes it is not what the kid can do for the team but rather what the team can do for the kid" - source ?-sorry!
So we try to allow the best and the hardest working to go. All have a fair chance to prove their worthiness and we push a few along besides with the hopes we can spark them to blossoming.


WC