It's Championship, Not Nationals

[Cory]

Originally Posted by robochick1319

I love the idea of a Worldwide Championship but when you are telling people in the community about your upcoming FRC event and you call it World Champs you are implying the MOST countries attend the event. When in fact for FRC there aren't more than 10 or 11 I believe. Out of nearly 200 or so countries that is hardly a world competition.

Other sporting events get away with it.

MLB and the World Series for example, when there is exactly one international team (Toronto Blue Jays).

The Super Bowl winner is called the "world champion" and the NFL contains zero international teams.

FIRST actually is an international competition. Why not erase all ambiguity, and call it the title it rightly deserves--FIRST World Championships (or FIRST World Championship Event)?

[qwertyuiop[]\]

Originally Posted by Cory

The Super Bowl winner is called the "world champion" and the NFL contains zero international teams.

First off in the world of sports(that is non robotics), the super bowl winner is called the world champion because all the teams in the world have chance to go it is just that all those teams happen to be in the US. Also I think that for all of us here in Northern Virginia, and DC area that it just might get a little confusing with there be 2 things called the Nationals. Personally i still slip into calling it Nationals, but usually in my team we refer to it as going to Atlanta, not champs or globals or WORC or whatever else people call it whether it is right or wrong.

Also if this is international how come all the Reigonals are in the US?(i know that next year this statement will be irrelevant because of the New Zeland Regional). I think that the only dignified ways of refering to it is by calling it Atlanta, Nationals, or the Championship.

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by qwertyuiop[]\

Also if this is international how come all the Reigonals are in the US?(i know that next year this statement will be irrelevant because of the New Zeland Regional)

Uhm, not to go off on too much of a tangent, but they aren't. The Israel, Brazil, Toronto (Canada) and Waterloo (Canada) FRC regional competition events have been around for a while now.

-dave

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by dlavery

Uhm, not to go off on too much of a tangent, but they aren't. The Israel, Brazil, Toronto (Canada) and Waterloo (Canada) FRC regional competition events have been around for a while now.

-dave

Let us not forget New Zealand now. Sorry guys, but for me "Nationals" still rolls off the tongue a little easier than "Championships". You will hear me use both and "Champs" but don't flame me, I am old and you need to give me a little slack. Half of my FIRST experience was "Nationals" and half "Championships". Maybe next year I will leave the old title behind.

[JaneYoung]

Here's a perspective that I look from -
I've been involved with the university where I work for 25 years. Departmental names can change and change again and change again and then - return to their original name. Office names can change. We changed ours several years ago because the original name was causing confusion. Websites change/ update/stay current with the latest information (or should) - so they can promote the university - accurately and efficiently. One of the first changes that occurs when a staff person receives a title change, is a new order of business cards with the correct title. We work on an international level and we have a reputation that we value, market, and promote. As much as possible, everyone throughout the university and its branches, tries very hard to work together to promote the vision, the goals, and the mission of this educational institution. This includes its events.

Some traditional names can take a while to change, that is true, and depending on the impact or lack of - on the scope of the mission - depends on the amount of effort and expenditure put forth to push for the change.

[Swan217]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Let us not forget New Zealand now. Sorry guys, but for me "Nationals" still rolls off the tongue a little easier than "Championships". You will hear me use both and "Champs" but don't flame me, I am old and you need to give me a little slack. Half of my FIRST experience was "Nationals" and half "Championships". Maybe next year I will leave the old title behind.

First of all, the only thing I hate more than people calling the Championships Nationals is people yelling at people calling the Championships Nationals. Everyone knows why they do it. Yeah, I still do it when I'm typing quickly too or being lazy, and yeah when out in public you should be more careful to use the correct terminology.

You all know, there actually is an easy way to fix this terminology. It seems to me that "Regional" is starting to become an outdated term as well as Nationals did. As Regionals have grown, and now we have "Superregionals" now, as well as having competitions that are transnational, it's obvious that "Regional" doesn't adequately define some competitions anymore. So how about this:

GTR in Toronto, Brazil, Israel, and New Zealand should be heretofore known as "National" competitions (And maybe other humongous regionals such as Boston and Great Lakes). The Brazillian Robotics Nationals, the Israeli Robotics Nationals, The New Zealand Robotics Nationals.

Then since you're forced to use the term "Nationals" to describe a currently existing competition, people will stop using it to describe the Transnational Championship*. It's just a psychological trick.


*Idea #2: If you like "nationals" so much, start forcing yourself to call them "transnationals" or "internationals"

[qwertyuiop[]\]

Originally Posted by Dan Swando

*Idea #2: If you like "nationals" so much, start forcing yourself to call them "transnationals" or "internationals"

that makes alot of sense i think that im going to do that now. and are internationals always going to be in georgia?

[KathieK]

FIRST has designated names for the events held in spring for FLL, FTC and FRC: FIRST Robotics Competition Championship, FIRST Tech Challenge World Championship, FIRST LEGO League World Festival. That's what should be used, to provide consistency in our messages to the media, etc., and to be aligned with what FIRST markets the events as.

And the location of the Championship event (as FIRST calls the entire event) changes - in recent memory it has been held at DisneyWorld in Orlando, FL, at the Astrodome in Houston, TX, and most recently at the Georgia Dome/World Congress Center in Atlanta, GA.

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by qwertyuiop[]\

First off in the world of sports(that is non robotics), the super bowl winner is called the world champion because all the teams in the world have chance to go it is just that all those teams happen to be in the US.

The National Football League is not open to all countries at all. Hence the name.

GTR in Toronto, Brazil, Israel, and New Zealand should be heretofore known as "National" competitions

What about us poor people at Waterloo?? (we are the only local Waterloo team)

[Danny Diaz]

lol. Jane has yelled at us on 418 multiple times for calling it "Nationals." Personally I don't give a rat's patootie. It's an event put on by a private organization who has decided to call it whatever they want and can change its name whenever they want. They control who gets in and how they get in, in a fashion similar but not similar to other events (like sporting events) who use similar terminology. I see "Nationals" or the "Championships" for FRC as just another regional, only some people are "invited" (regional winners, CA winners) others are "grandfathered" (Hall of Fame plus first teams), and others get in nearly randomly (Ladder entries). It's not the same as FLL, where all teams have won the Champion's Award at their championship tournaments. I don't even know how FTC works in that respect.

It's up to FIRST to decide what they're going to call it, and I have no problem with that (not that it would make any difference if I did). But if I just decide to call it the "Dean Kamen Atlanta Super-Regional" then that's just how it's going to be.

-Danny

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Danny Diaz

lol. Jane has yelled at us on 418 multiple times for calling it "Nationals." Personally I don't give a rat's patootie. It's an event put on by a private organization who has decided to call it whatever they want and can change its name whenever they want. They control who gets in and how they get in, in a fashion similar but not similar to other events (like sporting events) who use similar terminology. I see "Nationals" or the "Championships" for FRC as just another regional, only some people are "invited" (regional winners, CA winners) others are "grandfathered" (Hall of Fame plus first teams), and others get in nearly randomly (Ladder entries). It's not the same as FLL, where all teams have won the Champion's Award at their championship tournaments. I don't even know how FTC works in that respect.

It's up to FIRST to decide what they're going to call it, and I have no problem with that. But if I just decide to call it the "Dean Kamen Atlanta Super-Regional" then that's just how it's going to be.

Well now aren't you special!

To some it may not be an a big issue whether it's called Nationals or Championship, but let's try and consider why some people get so worked up about this. If one is to look at the definitions of "National" you'll find that most definitions refer to a single nation. This is what upsets many people. Since 1998, this culminating event of the FIRST Robotics Competition has involved multiple countries. Whether intended or not, by calling the competition "Nationals", you are inadvertantly disrespecting the efforts and accomplishments of all those teams from other countries who are attending the event.

I understand that old habits die hard, and I understand the mentality of "It's just a name", but please try and consider why people get upset about these sorts of things. I'm never going to be the person who bites someone's head off about accidentally calling it Nationals, but it's fairly irritating to see that someone clearly understands how he could be seen as disrespecting someone, but doesn't "give a rat's patootie". So, if I decide to call that behaviour asinine, "then that's just how it's going to be."

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Well now aren't you special!

No, not really. I just have a problem with calling it the "Championship Tournament," for all reasons I've already enumerated. It's not REALLY a "Championship" because almost literally anybody can get in if they can pay for it. If they called it an "Invitational" then I would have less of a problem with it. But, again, whatever - it's not my competition. I just pay to play.

-Danny

[T3_1565]

Originally Posted by Danny Diaz

No, not really. I just have a problem with calling it the "Championship Tournament," for all reasons I've already enumerated. It's not REALLY a "Championship" because almost literally anybody can get in if they can pay for it. If they called it an "Invitational" then I would have less of a problem with it. But, again, whatever - it's not my competition. I just pay to play.

-Danny

I would call it championships.. although some teams do get in "randomly" The winners of the events have won everything, therefore are champions. Its the biggest event to win, therefore should be treated as such

That and if the media were around, which would sound like a bigger deal "National Champion" or "World Champion"?? (this is in a media sense only!)

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Danny Diaz

lol. Jane has yelled at us on 418 multiple times for calling it "Nationals." Personally I don't give a rat's patootie.

Originally Posted by Karthik

To some it may not be an a big issue whether it's called Nationals or Championship, but let's try and consider why some people get so worked up about this.

FVC changed to FTC this year. Many people still called it "Vex" - in fact, CD still calls the sub-forum Vex. (Note to mods - need to start a FTC forum and move threads accordingly. A big task, methinks.)

Danny, will you have no problem next year if FTC is still called Vex? Or if the new FRC controller is mistakenly attributed to IFI? I can see those mistakes happening for several years to come, to the consternation of LEGO and NI. Why shouldn't this community be as sensitive toward our international teams and compatriots?

Does it matter a rat's patootie in the long run? No. But there's no need to intentionally disrespect the feelings of others.

[JaneYoung]

If my name is going to be connected with the term, yelling, I would like to take a moment to address it.

Taking a step back - FIRST started small and developed over time. A very short amount of time, if you think about it. Big Mike's post refers to a different time, a different era. That is when the competition was called, the Nationals. And then, FIRST grew and with growth, changed the name of the gathering of all of the teams that come together in the final event of the season. It is called the Championship event.

Change is very hard. We see it reflected in these fora often:
- discussions of name changes for teams
- event changes
- technological changes
- changes in sponsors, schools, mentors
- students graduating

That's just a few. Change. How we handle it, deal with it, respect it - is up to us individually and as a team/group/organization. It shows who we are and what we are made of.

--
So there you go,
that's pretty much how I 'yell'.
Jane