CNC Router/Mill

[gren737]

Don't forget to check out one of your local friendly FIRST suppliers, intelitek Inc. (you know, the people who made EasyC)

I'll admit right upfront I'm a former employee (hence the plug) but the Super ProLight 1000 is a sweet machine. It's right in your budget and the best part is they also sell curriculum to support it and it's made for educational use so it's very user friendly and easy to learn.
No worries about crashes and expensive repairs, it's pretty bullit-proof.
Team 40's made tons of robot parts from gearbox sides to give-aways, you name it.

www.intelitek.com or swing by Team 40 at Championships and talk to any of the mentors.

-Sarah (shameless plug over now)

[Andrew Schuetze]

Take a look at Techno's LC series.
http://www.techno-isel.com/Education1/Ed_LCSeries.htm

We use this one as a teaching machine for class yet is has a large enough table to work on drive-train parts or larger frame / mechanism parts. Mastercam can post nc files.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/25892

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schuetze

Take a look at Techno's LC series.
http://www.techno-isel.com/Education1/Ed_LCSeries.htm

We use this one as a teaching machine for class yet is has a large enough table to work on drive-train parts or larger frame / mechanism parts. Mastercam can post nc files.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/25892

If you are looking for a machine that can hold tight tolerance (for bearing bores and whatnot), high material removal rates, and the ability to handle steels, I'd recommend against a gantry style machine such as this (and a round column mill such as the CNC Jr). They simply don't have the rigidity required.

The Tormach is a nice machine for the price. I've heard good things about it. However, it still is an open loop stepper based system run by Mach software (not the greatest IMHO) and you'll only get 60 IPM and .001" accuracy out of it. If you can afford the HAAS, I'd go for that. I've been using HAAS machines for 5 years and they are very easy machines to learn and operate and have many nice features.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

And one more thing. Go up in your attic, basement, or garage and dig out all those 3.5" floppy discs, like all those free ones that came with AOL 3.0. Many CNC machines still use floppy discs to load NC programs (these are the programs of G-code that tell the machine how to make your part) onto the machines; the only ones I've seen that have support for USB Flash drives are the larger models, like the Haas VM-3 or VF-4.

When purchasing tooling, just remember that the TM-1 only has a ten-tool changer. Ordering 24 tool holders seems like a bit much.

All new Haas machines now come with USB.

24 pullstuds can be very useful, even if you dont have 24 holders. Eventually they will wear out or break. Our machine has a 20 tool changer, and I have the entire carousel full, plus tools outside of the machine that I swap in for certain operations, so there is a use for having more than the maximum capacity of you toolchanger.

[Lowfategg]

Ok, I have no clue what is what when it comes to CNC but I do know that if we wanted to start an FRC team next year a CNC mill would come in quite handy (since we need a mill anyway). Since I am cheap and we would only be using this mill for FRC how would something like this work?

http://www.taigtools.com/cmill.html

What would we be limited to with this machine? I know some one here said bearing holes would be hard to cut and it would also take sometime to make anything. Anything else I should be aware of?

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Lowfategg

Ok, I have no clue what is what when it comes to CNC but I do know that if we wanted to start an FRC team next year a CNC mill would come in quite handy (since we need a mill anyway). Since I am cheap and we would only be using this mill for FRC how would something like this work?

http://www.taigtools.com/cmill.html

What would we be limited to with this machine? I know some one here said bearing holes would be hard to cut and it would also take sometime to make anything. Anything else I should be aware of?

Maximum Travel: X = 9.5", Y = 5.5", Z = 6.0"

That mill would work for anything up to about the size of a gearbox plate.

If I only had a few thousand dollars to put into a milling machine for a FRC team, I'd be much more likely to look into a good-condition, used manual milling machine before I would get a mini-CNC mill. CNC mills are nice if you already have manual equipment, as there are a lot of occasions where it takes longer to make "easy" parts via CNC than it does to just make them on a manual milling machine.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

CNC mills are nice if you already have manual equipment, as there are a lot of occasions where it takes longer to make "easy" parts via CNC than it does to just make them on a manual milling machine.

Agreed. I doubt the Taig would be able to do anything very useful in a decent amount of time.

[Lowfategg]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

That mill would work for anything up to about the size of a gearbox plate.

If I only had a few thousand dollars to put into a milling machine for a FRC team, I'd be much more likely to look into a good-condition, used manual milling machine before I would get a mini-CNC mill. CNC mills are nice if you already have manual equipment, as there are a lot of occasions where it takes longer to make "easy" parts via CNC than it does to just make them on a manual milling machine.

So say buy a cheap used manual mill and then a mini-CNC mill or is that just over kill. How offend are you going to mill something bigger then the CNC mill could do on a standard FRC bot? From what I could see on 303 robot this year we could make everything on the mini-CNC mill.

[Cory]

That mill doesn't even appear to come with a controller/software.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Lowfategg

So say buy a cheap used manual mill and then a mini-CNC mill or is that just over kill. How offend are you going to mill something bigger then the CNC mill could do on a standard FRC bot? From what I could see on 303 robot this year we could make everything on the mini-CNC mill.

He's saying manual. Less time programming/setting up means more parts, unless you have a lot of parts that you need identical (and then you can make a jig to set them up). Size doesn't really matter for FRC, as long as it isn't TOO small.

The mill isn't what will kill your budget, it's the tooling for it. Start with a manual and tools. There are upgrades you can get to make it at least semi-CNC, if you so desire. If Cory's right, then you may as well get a manual mill, as CNCs are useless without controllers.

[Qbranch]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

One of the dozen Haas CNC machines on my campus is a Haas TM-1, and it's definitely a good machine for doing all different kinds of work.

I saw one of these running at IMTS in 2006, where they recut the same part over and over (mill air) for demonstration purposes... well, unless they changed something, the TM-1 I saw had run the same part over probably about 60 times by the time I got there and it was STILL cutting dust off the part. It just seems like the repeatability must not be very good if after that many re-runs it was still cutting dust off the part.

BUT! If it works for you, awesome.

Just to throw another name out there... my faaavorite mill I use at work is a Hurco w/rigid tapping (awesome): http://www.hurco.com/Hurco/English/P...ers/VM+Series/

They're very space efficient and have great feature lists for the money, though they're more production oriented than a TM series from Haas.

-q

[ChuckDickerson]

I tend to agree with the others comments. The Taig is just a bit too small. Not only is the work envelope limiting but the rigidity of the machine itself limits the cuts you can make. For the same ~$2500 you could get a manual dovetail mill/drill. Take a look at Industrial Hobbies. I don't have nor have I ever used or even seen in person one of their mill/drills but their website sure makes a strong case for their mill/drill over the similar well known Rong-Fu and cheaper house brand imports like Enco, Grizzly, Turn-Pro, etc. For the same ~$2500 you are considereing spending on that Taig CNC mini-mill you can get the Industrial Hobbies basic manual SQUARE COLUMN mill/drill. It is a beast though compared to the Taig so you aren't going to be bringing it along to competition. If you search around on their website there is a photo of a popular hobby type Seig X2 mini-mill (Harbor Freight, Homier, Grizzly, Micromark, etc.) sitting on the table INSIDE the Industrial Hobbies mill/drill. The Taig mini-lathe is about the same size as the Seig X2 mini-mills but the Taig is a little less "beefy" if you ask me. If you have the $ consider one of the Industrial Hobbies packages with DROs and power feed included with the mill/drill for about $3700. If you don't have the extra funds for the DROs and/or power feed up front you can always add them later for ~$1500.

So as others have said you are probably better off starting with a manual mill and required tooling first and then step up to CNC later if needed. Never underestimate the cost of tooling. You could easily spend another $2500 on tooling.

As luck would have it Industrial Hobbies has ready made CNC retrofit packages for their mill/drills for ~$4500 which includes software.

As I said I have absolutely no experiance with the Industrial Hobbies machines but I am strongly considering one for myself. I figure for ~$4000 I can get a really nice manual mill/drill with DROs and power feed delivered to my door. Once setup I can later add CNC for ~$4500 if I want and have a really nice setup for a total investment of ~$8500. I have the tooling covered since the Industrial Hobbies mill/drill has an R8 spindle as does my existing Seig X2 mini-mill.

If anyone has any hands on experiance with the Industrial Hobbies machines I would love to hear your opinions of the machine.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by gren737

Don't forget to check out one of your local friendly FIRST suppliers, intelitek Inc.

This past year was the first year we made anything on a CNC and it was using the school's Intelitek machine. Ours only had around 6" of travel, but it was great being able to make small plates and parts and allowed our manual mills to be used at the same time.

Good luck on the CNC search. After looking at the model Cory has suggested, it does seem to be a good choice if you have the money for it.

[Lowfategg]

Ok, thanks for the info! Just gathering information about what my team would need to upgrade to FRC. It just seems that every "good" robot on has CNC parts all over them. I know how to use a mill but when it comes to which one to get I am clueless.

[Ryan Dognaux]

Originally Posted by Lowfategg

Ok, thanks for the info! Just gathering information about what my team would need to upgrade to FRC. It just seems that every "good" robot on here has CNC parts all over them.

You'll find that this theory isn't always true. You can have all the CNC / Waterjet / Lasercut machining done to your robot, but if there's not a solid and sound design, it won't matter.

There are plenty of robots made every year with a band saw and a drill press that excel because their design is simple yet effective.

A lot of times it's easier to find a local company or university with the kinds of machinery mentioned in this thread. Do a bit of research and send out a few e-mails, or ask some other local FRC teams that have access to these capabilities. You'd be surprised at how willing people are to help you out.