Electric Vehicles, in favor of? or disapprove?

[Generalx5]

My question to the public is, would you buy an electric vehicle on your next purchase if it were widely available?


This electric vehicle runs on battery power only, no hybrids or synergy drive system.

If the price were just under $50,000 and has a range of 60km per charge.

Please reply saying either you would make the purchase or not. This vehicle is standard size, doesnt look like its electric, lets say that it looks like a regular gas car, or even better. Metalic Paint comes in silver, white, red, black and navy blue. The car type is a sedan, comes with a lifetime warrantee and all the charger accessories etc too.

if you have the money, or is able to take out a lease, would you go for it?

Oh and top speeds of 120km/h is achievable. This is a vehicle that you would mostlikely drive to and from work. AC, Entertainment pakage, and nagivation pakage included.

Im just courious....since, electric vehicles have been showing up, but didnt sell very nicely. Some say that they were made to look bad so they dont sell well. Others say that the oil industry puressures the car manufactures to halt research on electrics...

[Andrew Schreiber]

I would like to buy an electric car.

Now, I would have to say it would go further than 60 km on a charge. Id like at least 300 miles (~480 km) and reasonably accelerate to speeds of about 70 mph (112 km/hr) I would also like to see it in the $30,000 range.

I wouldn't object to it looking different. Im just sick of paying nearly $4 for a gallon of gas.

Also, take a look at Tesla Motors. Might be something that interests you.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Generalx5

If the price were just under $50,000 and has a range of 60km per charge.

Just under 50 grand CAD (or ~$49,700 USD), and only 60km (or 37 miles?)

No.

The reason pure electric cars are not widely available are exactly those two reasons.
High prices & low range (in mileage).
Gas, or better yet, gas/electric hybrids just make more sense at this point in time.

The best pure electric cars (that have been marketed to the public - ie: from the Solectria Company, & others) can get at least 50 miles per charge cycle btw.
They use regenerative braking systems to help bump them into that range.

Until brand new or better battery technology comes out to make a 100 mile range possible, I can & will not see one in my immediate future. Especially at the 50,000 Dollar mark. That is just ridiculous at this day & age.

[OScubed]

Not I said the pig.

30 mile range for a $50k car with the top speed of a snowmobile (and probably not nearly as much accelleration)? I'm betting the cost per mile (or KM) isn't THAT much cheaper than gas by the time you pay your electric bill. And guess what - all that electric doesn't come cheap either. If we were to overnight make all cars electric we wouldn't have nearly the electric capacity to accomodate that kind of vehicle battery recharge load on a daily basis. So that means building more electrical plants. With Solar and Wind being rough to make work economically or environmentally for various reasons that means water, coal or nuclear. Coal and Nuclear not being so much better for the environment than gas is, that means really water. So who's going to build the hydro dams, move people out of their houses on the lake so that the water can rise? Look what an environmental disaster that's been in Yangtse China.

I'd work on cheap clean electric power before I'd work on gas -> electric conversions. We need sustainable fusion then this whole thing just goes away. Gas would have to be a WHOLE lot more expensive before it becomes a significant portion of anyone average wage earner's budget. Until it does - it really has no impact on Joe or Jane Q Average. If it did would they be buying SUVs to tool around the city?

[Generalx5]

I forgot to mention about regenerative braking. Yes thats also included. I stated that 60km being the minumum, not ideal conditions. Something like 80kmm is more likely with RBS, the hood, trunk top, and roof have high density solar panels built into them too. The $50,000 is the introductory price, the initial price to help with production funding. It will easilly drop into the 30 range when demand for them is high.

I just need to know who would be interest at the moment.

The electrics have the most torque from 0, so acceleration is far better than gas cars.

[Jeff Rodriguez]

If I had the money, I would buy one. Mainly, I would want to help get projects and ideas like that off the ground.

[Tristan Lall]

No way.

The main factor is the price point: it's nice to be nice to the environment, but not at a premium of tens of thousands of dollars. I could have a bicycle (a moderately-nice one), an efficient-but-tiny subcompact (like a Hyundai Accent) and an efficient-but-full-sized sedan (maybe a base-model Nissan Altima) for that price, all bought new. That way, I could balance environmental impact versus practical needs. Or, if I felt especially philanthropic, I could put the spare tens of thousands to something more useful toward environmental protection.

Also, you haven't specified how much energy it consumes. If I get my energy from a coal-fired generating station, 200 km away, are the emissions and transmission losses on par with the efficiencies and emissions associated with operating a conventional engine? If not, then it's very difficult to make the case that the vehicle is environmentally-friendly at all.

And how long does it take to charge it? If it's a 30-minute deal when supplied from a special high-current charging station, then the range may be marginally acceptable for short trips between charge points. (Hopefully I would get one of these charge points installed for free, with electrical service upgrades as necessary, upon purchasing the car.) But if it needs to stay overnight, plugged into the wall, that range is unacceptable. Many people drive 20 km or more to work: if you use a third of the range on the way to work, and another third on the way back, are you going to be happy about not being able to get to and from robotics in the evening?

How will the battery will perform over its lifetime? What is the battery's lifetime? I don't want to pay replacement costs, unless it's very cheap. And I don't want to find myself with 25% less range in three years.

And is the top speed a governed speed that it can reach easily, or is it a drag- or powertrain-limited speed that it can barely manage? Traffic often travels at 130 km/h on major highways in Southern Ontario. 100 km/h must be reachable within about 20 s, for it to be safely driveable on the highway, given the length of most acceleration lanes.

All of these things can be compromised to some degree in the design of the vehicle, but when most, or all of them are sub-par, it's not going to be acceptable to anyone.

Fortunately, none of the electric vehicles currently marketed suffer from so many deficiencies. If a 60 km range is advertised, you'll get a subcompact city car, or perhaps a souped-up golf cart ("NEV"). It won't cost $50 000.

By the way, the solar angle is a dead end, at least for a car that needs to be used as a daily driver. What do you do when there's a centimetre of ice and snow on the car? Scrape the precious solar cells? Use more energy to defrost them? What happens when it's cloudy, or it's night? Purpose-built solar racecars exist that can reach 120 km/h, and sustain that speed in continuous sunshine. But they're worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and seat one (small) person in a reclining position with virtually no visibility, no cargo capacity, no amenities and minimal crash protection. (The driver of the University of Toronto's solar car team was killed in a road accident a few years ago: he stood no chance against the two-tonne minivan that destroyed the solar car.)

Originally Posted by Generalx5

My question to the public is, would you buy an electric vehicle on your next purchase if it were widely available?


This electric vehicle runs on battery power only, no hybrids or synergy drive system.

If the price were just under $50,000 and has a range of 60km per charge.

Please reply saying either you would make the purchase or not. This vehicle is standard size, doesnt look like its electric, lets say that it looks like a regular gas car, or even better. Metalic Paint comes in silver, white, red, black and navy blue. The car type is a sedan, comes with a lifetime warrantee and all the charger accessories etc too.

if you have the money, or is able to take out a lease, would you go for it?

Oh and top speeds of 120km/h is achievable. This is a vehicle that you would mostlikely drive to and from work. AC, Entertainment pakage, and nagivation pakage included.

Im just courious....since, electric vehicles have been showing up, but didnt sell very nicely. Some say that they were made to look bad so they dont sell well. Others say that the oil industry puressures the car manufactures to halt research on electrics...

No I would not, not at that price and range even with a lease or finance option, if it was just for running around downtown locally then I would get an electric bike or very small car but for that money if better go 800km on a charge and well...cost less, alot less for the masses to adopt it and how long would the charge take? thats the other issue, for those like me who drive for a living I need something affordable and that charges up fast.

Bottom line is these oil and gas prices are not comming down, we are one massive hurricane or disaster away from a real fuel price crisis in Canada and the USA and even where oil has gone to now at $125/barrel has dumbfounded all the so-called experts.

Our way of life is going to change big time when gas is $6-10/gallon/litre etc.

For some yes public transit is an option and our GO trains in Ontario are standing room only now and bike repair shops can't keep up but for many including those who's business is on the road they sure better come up with a small light electric car and truck soon....not three years from now.

Whatever they come up with also has to be in line price-wise with whats on the market now as well.

All I know is the big car companies are delivering large gas guzzleing vehicles here to car lots and there is no space to dump them becauase last year's models are still sitting here unsold.

If they cant come up with a long range fast charging battery then perhaps the way to go is battery exchange, you have a car what can maybe do 500km on a battery and you would exchange batteries at the gas station instead of recharging them.....it would have to be plug and play design but thats not the difficult part I would think.

Instead of filling up would would change batteries and pay accordingly, just like alot of the gas stations up here do with the BBQ propane tanks.

Bottom line is $200 oil is not that far away

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

No way.

The main factor is the price point: it's nice to be nice to the environment, but not at a premium of tens of thousands of dollars. I could have a bicycle (a moderately-nice one), an efficient-but-tiny subcompact (like a Hyundai Accent) and an efficient-but-full-sized sedan (maybe a base-model Nissan Altima) for that price, all bought new. That way, I could balance environmental impact versus practical needs. Or, if I felt especially philanthropic, I could put the spare tens of thousands to something more useful toward environmental protection.

Also, you haven't specified how much energy it consumes. If I get my energy from a coal-fired generating station, 200 km away, are the emissions and transmission losses on par with the efficiencies and emissions associated with operating a conventional engine? If not, then it's very difficult to make the case that the vehicle is environmentally-friendly at all.

And how long does it take to charge it? If it's a 30-minute deal when supplied from a special high-current charging station, then the range may be marginally acceptable for short trips between charge points. (Hopefully I would get one of these charge points installed for free, with electrical service upgrades as necessary, upon purchasing the car.) But if it needs to stay overnight, plugged into the wall, that range is unacceptable. Many people drive 20 km or more to work: if you use a third of the range on the way to work, and another third on the way back, are you going to be happy about not being able to get to and from robotics in the evening?

How will the battery will perform over its lifetime? What is the battery's lifetime? I don't want to pay replacement costs, unless it's very cheap. And I don't want to find myself with 25% less range in three years.

And is the top speed a governed speed that it can reach easily, or is it a drag- or powertrain-limited speed that it can barely manage? Traffic often travels at 130 km/h on major highways in Southern Ontario. 100 km/h must be reachable within about 20 s, for it to be safely driveable on the highway, given the length of most acceleration lanes.

All of these things can be compromised to some degree in the design of the vehicle, but when most, or all of them are sub-par, it's not going to be acceptable to anyone.

Fortunately, none of the electric vehicles currently marketed suffer from so many deficiencies. If a 60 km range is advertised, you'll get a subcompact city car, or perhaps a souped-up golf cart ("NEV"). It won't cost $50 000.

By the way, the solar angle is a dead end, at least for a car that needs to be used as a daily driver. What do you do when there's a centimetre of ice and snow on the car? Scrape the precious solar cells? Use more energy to defrost them? What happens when it's cloudy, or it's night? Purpose-built solar racecars exist that can reach 120 km/h, and sustain that speed in continuous sunshine. But they're worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and seat one (small) person in a reclining position with virtually no visibility, no cargo capacity, no amenities and minimal crash protection. (The driver of the University of Toronto's solar car team was killed in a road accident a few years ago: he stood no chance against the two-tonne minivan that destroyed the solar car.)

The costs and red tape of getting a car certified by transport canada by the way make it nearly impossible to get any car produced by a small company certified, I can't remember the name of the company but it's in don mills and they have a little green battery powered car, that's quite nice actually but they have been stuck for at least 3 years as it's not legal for the road...

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

No way.

The main factor is the price point: it's nice to be nice to the environment, but not at a premium of tens of thousands of dollars. I could have a bicycle (a moderately-nice one), an efficient-but-tiny subcompact (like a Hyundai Accent) and an efficient-but-full-sized sedan (maybe a base-model Nissan Altima) for that price, all bought new. That way, I could balance environmental impact versus practical needs. Or, if I felt especially philanthropic, I could put the spare tens of thousands to something more useful toward environmental protection.

Also, you haven't specified how much energy it consumes. If I get my energy from a coal-fired generating station, 200 km away, are the emissions and transmission losses on par with the efficiencies and emissions associated with operating a conventional engine? If not, then it's very difficult to make the case that the vehicle is environmentally-friendly at all.

And how long does it take to charge it? If it's a 30-minute deal when supplied from a special high-current charging station, then the range may be marginally acceptable for short trips between charge points. (Hopefully I would get one of these charge points installed for free, with electrical service upgrades as necessary, upon purchasing the car.) But if it needs to stay overnight, plugged into the wall, that range is unacceptable. Many people drive 20 km or more to work: if you use a third of the range on the way to work, and another third on the way back, are you going to be happy about not being able to get to and from robotics in the evening?

How will the battery will perform over its lifetime? What is the battery's lifetime? I don't want to pay replacement costs, unless it's very cheap. And I don't want to find myself with 25% less range in three years.

And is the top speed a governed speed that it can reach easily, or is it a drag- or powertrain-limited speed that it can barely manage? Traffic often travels at 130 km/h on major highways in Southern Ontario. 100 km/h must be reachable within about 20 s, for it to be safely driveable on the highway, given the length of most acceleration lanes.

All of these things can be compromised to some degree in the design of the vehicle, but when most, or all of them are sub-par, it's not going to be acceptable to anyone.

Fortunately, none of the electric vehicles currently marketed suffer from so many deficiencies. If a 60 km range is advertised, you'll get a subcompact city car, or perhaps a souped-up golf cart ("NEV"). It won't cost $50 000.

By the way, the solar angle is a dead end, at least for a car that needs to be used as a daily driver. What do you do when there's a centimetre of ice and snow on the car? Scrape the precious solar cells? Use more energy to defrost them? What happens when it's cloudy, or it's night? Purpose-built solar racecars exist that can reach 120 km/h, and sustain that speed in continuous sunshine. But they're worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and seat one (small) person in a reclining position with virtually no visibility, no cargo capacity, no amenities and minimal crash protection. (The driver of the University of Toronto's solar car team was killed in a road accident a few years ago: he stood no chance against the two-tonne minivan that destroyed the solar car.)

here is the link to the electric car company in Toronto, I was the camera guy on one of the stories and I actually liked this little car.....it's still not on the road.....
http://www.zenncars.com/

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimesc...03b1820b18&p=2

http://www.canada.com/victoriatimesc...2-4203b1820b18

http://www.canada.com/coquitlamnow/n...e3ceeb&k=91135

[usbcd36]

No.

True, I'd save a lot of money on fuel, but there are better ways stop buying gasoline altogether. For example, the Honda Civic GX runs on natural gas, the range is more than five times of your proposed electric car, and the cost is just over half as much (including the refueling station). I don't think people don't buy electric cars because they're electric; I think people don't buy electric cars because the switch to an electric car makes some things difficult and other things (like long trips) impossible.

[sanddrag]

60km range, 120kph top speed, and $50,000?. Absolutely not. Quadruple the range, bump the top speed to 135 kph, and chop the price in 3, then maybe I'd consider buying it. These are the very reasons electric cars have not yet succeeded. For the amount of energy you get out of it, gasoline is still relatively cheap. You can go buy a brand new car for <$20,000, that will get 30 mpg. You can get a used one for half. Why would you drop $50,000 on a car with very limited range, uncertainty of getting places (if it is dead), and can't cruise with some of the faster traffic around here? Not gonna happen.

Personally, I drive 75 miles per day, four days per week, in a vehicle that gets 14.5 mpg. Smart? Not exactly, but look at the alternative. Yes, I'm spending $400 per month on gas, but it would cost me over 1.5x that to live closer to school. Say I got a vehicle that got twice the gas mileage, so I saved $200 per month. There's no way a person can pay for and insure a vehicle for only $200 per month. What's a person to do? It would take a VERY long time to get your money back to drop $50,000, or even $30,000 on a car, when you already have a car. Until gas is $10 per gallon or electric cars drop sub-$20k, the electric car will hardly get a second look.

I'm not terribly confident in the near future of hybrid technology either. GM next year will be releasing a hybrid (wait for it.....) Yukon. I mean seriously, what are they thinking? It costs like another $15,000+ over a regular Yukon, has a gigantic 6L engine still, and only gets another 5mpg. The point is?

At this point, there are only three options as I see it. 1. Eat the cost (bad for saving for retirement). 2. Don't drive. Yeah right. 3. Buy an old diesel Mercedes and visit the back door of your favorite restaurant when your tank gets low.

I like option 3. But, most of us will be on option 1 for quite some time, because our lifestyles and locations, require us to drive, and we currently haven't the money to change our lifestyles or locations. I'd conjecture that most of the country has a fair amount of debt, and simply cannot move their home or purchase a different vehicle, because either of those still costs more than the rising price of gas.

On a related note, I'm finding it more and more difficult for people to start a career and make significant progress toward owning a home and retiring at a decent age in the US. Saving in this day and age is downright difficult when you have to spend over half of your yearly income just to put a roof over your head, and then you need to eat, and drive, and maybe pay for a kid too. What's left?

[artdutra04]

I would not get the car table you described.

But if you changed the specs to 200+ mile range, 135 mph max speed, and 0-60 acceleration in under 4 seconds, then I'd get one if I had that kind of cash. But I don't, so until they come out with a more affordable model in the coming decade, the closest I'll get to an electric car is my i180 Segway.

Edit:

Originally Posted by sanddrag

I'm not terribly confident in the near future of hybrid technology either. GM next year will be releasing a hybrid (wait for it.....) Yukon. I mean seriously, what are they thinking? It costs like another $15,000+ over a regular Yukon, has a gigantic 6L engine still, and only gets another 5mpg. The point is?

It's the same point as the people who order super-size value means at fast food chains with a Diet Coke.

It's just to artificially give them the warm and fuzzies that they did something good.

(By no means am I against hybrid or electric cars, it's just that a hybrid Yukon seems pointless. You can get a smaller (and cheaper) car and get the same improvement in gas mileage).

[Tristan Lall]

This GM documentary video from c. 1969 has some pretty interesting descriptions of all sorts of alternative power sources under consideration at the time. You'll notice that some of these designs have been in continuous development for the last 40 years, and still aren't ready for prime time.

Originally Posted by sanddrag

60km range, 120kph top speed, and $50,000?. Absolutely not. Quadruple the range, bump the top speed to 135 kph, and chop the price in 3, then maybe I'd consider buying it. These are the very reasons electric cars have not yet succeeded. For the amount of energy you get out of it, gasoline is still relatively cheap. You can go buy a brand new car for <$20,000, that will get 30 mpg. You can get a used one for half. Why would you drop $50,000 on a car with very limited range, uncertainty of getting places (if it is dead), and can't cruise with some of the faster traffic around here? Not gonna happen.

Personally, I drive 75 miles per day, four days per week, in a vehicle that gets 14.5 mpg. Smart? Not exactly, but look at the alternative. Yes, I'm spending $400 per month on gas, but it would cost me over 1.5x that to live closer to school. Say I got a vehicle that got twice the gas mileage, so I saved $200 per month. There's no way a person can pay for and insure a vehicle for only $200 per month. What's a person to do? It would take a VERY long time to get your money back to drop $50,000, or even $30,000 on a car, when you already have a car. Until gas is $10 per gallon or electric cars drop sub-$20k, the electric car will hardly get a second look.

I'm not terribly confident in the near future of hybrid technology either. GM next year will be releasing a hybrid (wait for it.....) Yukon. I mean seriously, what are they thinking? It costs like another $15,000+ over a regular Yukon, has a gigantic 6L engine still, and only gets another 5mpg. The point is?

At this point, there are only three options as I see it. 1. Eat the cost (bad for saving for retirement). 2. Don't drive. Yeah right. 3. Buy an old diesel Mercedes and visit the back door of your favorite restaurant when your tank gets low.

I like option 3. But, most of us will be on option 1 for quite some time, because our lifestyles and locations, require us to drive, and we currently haven't the money to change our lifestyles or locations. I'd conjecture that most of the country has a fair amount of debt, and simply cannot move their home or purchase a different vehicle, because either of those still costs more than the rising price of gas.

On a related note, I'm finding it more and more difficult for people to start a career and make significant progress toward owning a home and retiring at a decent age in the US. Saving in this day and age is downright difficult when you have to spend over half of your yearly income just to put a roof over your head, and then you need to eat, and drive, and maybe pay for a kid too. What's left?

There was just a report in a local newspaper here that the Toronto Tranist commission (TTC) is only saving 5-10% on diesel with all those new hydrbid electric buses, I have a feeling that with the larger vehicles the hybrid doesnt really help much, with the small/light car light the prius it seems to have more chance to actually save on gas.