Offseasons as your Regular Season?

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Water Bandit23

Here's a question which is in part connected to this thread, but if it isn't feel free to let me know. I've heard people say "If you thought BMR was fun, just wait until IRI", but I've also heard ot the opposite "If you think this such and such off saeson event is fun, just wait 'til you get to an actual regional".

Those statements are not opposites. They are talking about two completely different things. For anyone who hasn't been to an official competition, an offseason -- even one as awesome as IRI -- cannot prepare one for the total rush connected with the whole FIRST culture. But for someone who has already experienced the fullness of an FRC competition, IRI is something extra special and spectacular. IRI has earned its reputation as a place for the big dogs to compete. For better or for worse, it has become an elite event.

In your opinion, which is better FOR YOU, a regional or an off season event(mind you, they're both awesome.)?

I choose an official regional. There's so much opportunity to inspire and be inspired, before things have played out in the regular competition season.

[lingomaniac88]

In terms of cost, another factor that you have to consider is the price for staying near the off-season event if you don't live nearby. I don't think there are any off-season events within an hour or so from my school, so we'd probably need to stay overnight. I'm sure that there are other teams who have the same situation. But then again, if you don't live near an official regional event, you still have to stay somewhere overnight.

I think it's a good idea to attend an official regional and some off-season events. Yeah, you have to pay the $6,000, but you get a Kit of Parts so you don't have to go out and order everything (although you could probably do so). Another official regional costs $4,000, which some teams don't have. An off-season event is a few hundred dollars, plus maybe $1,000 or so in transportation and overnight staying. I don't know the exact cost, but the total cost is probably less than that of another official regional. I haven't gone to one, so I wouldn't know this for sure.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by lingomaniac88

In terms of cost, another factor that you have to consider is the price for staying near the off-season event if you don't live nearby. I don't think there are any off-season events within an hour or so from my school, so we'd probably need to stay overnight. I'm sure that there are other teams who have the same situation. But then again, if you don't live near an official regional event, you still have to stay somewhere overnight.

An hour is nothing. This year, some classmates of mine drove from Columbia, SC, to Atlanta for the Saturday of the Championship (roughly four hours on the road one-way) and went back the same night without any ill effects.*

It might be a long day for the team, but you can go a ways without requiring a hotel.

*And since we got a perfect score on our documentary, I'd venture to say it was worth it.

[Carlee10]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Those statements are not opposites. They are talking about two completely different things. For anyone who hasn't been to an official competition, an offseason -- even one as awesome as IRI -- cannot prepare one for the total rush connected with the whole FIRST culture. But for someone who has already experienced the fullness of an FRC competition, IRI is something extra special and spectacular. IRI has earned its reputation as a place for the big dogs to compete. For better or for worse, it has become an elite event.

That's not exactly what I meant. Some people say that they are both awesome, but one is better. Then the other says the reverse. These people have been to both kinds of events numerous times and say these things. To me, that means opposite. I just was wondering which sentiment more people agreed with. I myself can't remember IRI last year. I do remember BMR though. The week of IRI I have major things going on, same as last year, and I'm wondering if I should split Friday between my two conflicts. The other one is just as awesome/important. That's why I brought it up; for curiousities' sake, and for a little help in deciding.

[lingomaniac88]

Well, Billfred, I guess I was assuming that people wouldn't want to wake up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning to attend an event. Now I realize that I was wrong. But staying overnight IS more convenient than eight hours of transportation.

[Greg Marra]

Originally Posted by lingomaniac88

But staying overnight IS more convenient than eight hours of transportation.

Don't confuse convenient and expensive.

[techtiger1]

I would honestly rather go to the IRI then the championship event for a host of reasons. 2 regionals and IRI would be good with me or even 3 regionals and IRI. Could even be fun to do two regionals and calgames and/or battlecry. After 5 championship events 04-08 in the same location, I'm kind of over it. I also think you should do diffrent regionals and not the same ones keep it fun. I defintely think you should do at least one or two regionals. I see your point Corey.

My two cents,
Drew

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by lingomaniac88

I don't think there are any off-season events within an hour or so from my school, so we'd probably need to stay overnight.

You guys need to get out more

40 minutes to Deer Park Invitational, Oct. 25
50 minutes to Robofest 2008, June 14
90 minutes to Brunswick Eruption, Nov. 1
90 minutes to August Adventure, Aug. 2/3
108 minutes to Monty Madness, May 31

We go to the Deer Park and North Brunswick off-season competitions. For NJ only the drivers have to wake up at 5:30 am. the rest can nap on the ride over.

[Nawaid Ladak]

looking at this huge list of events, why not make a tour season instead

yes you can compete in the regular season, but maybe in the off season, all of the people here can get together for the mid-Atlantic/NE region and create a PGA tour type setup. with a little bit of sprint cup mixed in bewteen

maybe give a cretin amount of points for wins etc. and the winner gets a nice big shiny trophy

you wouldn't have to attend every event, but it would be useful.

here is an example of a scoring system

+10 points for winning the regional
+5 being a finalist
+3 Semi Finalist
+1 Quarter finalist

+1 win
0 tie
-0.25 Loss

maybe someone could put Ranking points into the mix as well

you could also add on points to cretin awards at these events, all in all, this could end up being a VERY FUN idea come next year

p.s. FIRST is ALL about having FUN. if it wasn't, most of us wouldn't be here

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak

p.s. FIRST is ALL about having FUN. if it wasn't, most of us wouldn't be here

[offtopic]

I think you're confusing what FIRST is as opposed to what FIRST is about. Everyone here will agree that FIRST is fun; FIRST itself has even billed its flagship competition as such. However, a cursory check of their website will indicate that FIRST is about inspiration in its various forms.

[Ken Streeter]

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri

I believe at least one regional is necessary. ...

If a team wants to ditch another regional in lieu of more off-seasons, I guess that's a valid choice for them to make. I believe 1519 does something like this.

We do make the conscious decision of competing in lots of off-season tournaments. This year, we attended only one regular-season tournament, and have six offseason tournaments currently planned, although we may try to get to one or two more. We're even hoping to field two robots at quite a few of these offseason events, space-permitting.

What is it that we like about the offseason events?

• More time in between the events to continue to make robot enhancements and implement new features.
• Less competitiveness, so that students can drive the robot that may not be the best drivers, but still want to have a chance to do so in a real competition. (The same holds for pit crews.)
• More time to socialize and interact with other teams at events.
• Lower registration fees to help stretch our budget farther.
• Single-day tournaments to avoid mentors needing to take days off from work to attend the tournaments.

That said, we'd love to be able to attend a second regular season tournament as well as a whole bunch of offseason events, but we think the offseason events are a fantastic value!

[Carlee10]

1519's approach makes sense. I think that's a really good idea. You get the benefits of both, but with less cost and all of the other wonderful advantages Ken mentioned.

[Gary Dillard]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I think a team would miss out a lot on not going to a regional event, and especially on not going to Atlanta, but they are going to miss out even more if there is no team at all because they can't afford it. If a team were to hit a rough patch and couldn't afford a regional, I think attending off-season events would be a cheap way to keep the team going during a time of troubles, or a cheap way to get a team started. I'd rather a team attend only off season events than no events at all.

For those who don't know, here is the situation with my team (1889):

We did not compete in 2008. We registered for the UCF regional, but when we had some sponsorships that we were expecting disappear, and we had less than $2000 in the bank in November, we contacted the regional committee and said we would not be able to attend.

However, we built a robot. We set our sights on building up our team and raising funds to compete in the 2009 season, with the intention of using our robot in fall 2008 off-season events. We followed all the rules (parts usage, build season, etc.) and have a perfectly legal robot, except that we have a 2007 controller instead of a 2008 controller (same with the batteries). We built a new chassis from the kit we hadn't used the previous year. We took our COTS AndyMark gearboxes and wheels from 2007 apart to the as-received condition and re-assembled them. We purchased an IR board, a trackball, and pneumatic cylinders, and built all new components. If this had happened a year later we would be stuck buying a brand new control system and probably couldn't have pulled it off.

What we have now is a team that has learned to work together under pressure of a 6 week schedule, and we have over $6000 in the bank, with a few thousand more coming in the fall for fabrication and travel. We will drive down to Mission Mayhem (~ 45 minutes) and will spend the night in the SunDome for TNT (~3.5 hours). It would have been great to attend IRI, but that probably would have put us in financial trouble for next season.

I think that offseason events are a good way to introduce students to what they can expect during the FIRST season and start getting them excited. We considered FTC as an option last year but by the time we could have started, their season was too far along and we had no experience. Depending on funding we may go that way in the future, but I thiink we have a solid foundation. My put is that off season events are a significant part of the total program, but are not a replacement.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Gary Dillard

For those who don't know, here is the situation with my team (1889):

Gary, thank you for sharing 1889's situation. I'm going to refer to this post as one of inspiration and making lemonade out of lemons - when I read about and hear about other teams struggling to keep afloat and wondering what they are going to do.

It is also a great example of what the tenacity and commitment of a mentor can do for a team.

Have fun at Mission Mayhem and TNT - I'll know you'll be helping other teams just like you always do.
Jane