Another pointless lawsuit in the works.. (taping students in for curfew)

[Koko Ed]

I remember a speech the head of Xerox Robotics Gene Wicks told our kids one time about taping them into their rooms: "If we have to tape you into your rooms, we're not taking you."

[Carlee10]

This is funny...but some people just have to have something to complain about. I wouldn't mind if it were me being taped, or taping somone else. Us teenagers just don't think sometimes, and I can see how they just wanted to keep anthing under control. I went on a trip, and there were several other groups, and they had a security officer on duty, so people couldn't bug other people trying to sleep. The case will probably be dropped, anyhow, if it even gets very far.

[Ericgehrken]

I understand the amount of liability trip chaperons take to allow us students to travel. These trips are a time for students to build character values such as being responsible and following a simple curfew. If we are taped inside of hotel rooms then we learn none of these values. We will simply become lunatics at every instance we are trusted and given freedom.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by firstbots195

These trips are a time for students to build character values such as being responsible and following a simple curfew. If we are taped inside of hotel rooms then we learn none of these values. We will simply become lunatics at every instance we are trusted and given freedom.

Unfortunately, there are those who don't "become lunatics" when given freedom. I would say that there are teams out there that have "troublemakers" on them. These kids may not need to deliberately do stupid things to get into trouble (i.e. they just do them without thinking). Any trouble is then blamed on the group. So the tape will enable the group to figure out who caused trouble or might have done so. Are these trips a time to build character? Yes. But I can understand why tape is used; the team/group doesn't want to run the risk of "Hey, you guys did xyz, don't come back ever again" when it was one or two students that were AWOL from their rooms at night.

What one student does affects the whole team. "One bad apple spoils the barrel."

[JaneYoung]

The part of the article that caught my attention was that the student was panicked by the taping procedure, thinking about fire safety issues. I respect that.

I have yet to see a team be taped in and I asked someone to explain it to me when I started reading about it on CD. For new students traveling in a group it is not wise to assume they know about this particular type of room monitoring or chaperoning.

[thefro526]

I was on a trip at the beginning of the month where we were tape in at night. I don't remember anyone saying anything negative about it aside from, "no wild party tonight." I don't really see anything illegal out of it and anyways anytime I've seen a door taped it was taped with masking tape or painters tape so that the pain wasn't damage. Now if you're a well bodied high school student and you can't break some tape shame on you.

[Cory]

First of all, this kid and his mom are both whiners. There was some tape on their door. BFD. Anyone who thinks some duct tape around the edge of the door (and I doubt the ENTIRE door was sealed...it was probably like a 6" long piece of tape) is going to keep their kid from exiting in the case of an emergency is nuts. Stories like this represent everything that is wrong with the litigious nature of our society.

Originally Posted by firstbots195

I understand the amount of liability trip chaperons take to allow us students to travel. These trips are a time for students to build character values such as being responsible and following a simple curfew. If we are taped inside of hotel rooms then we learn none of these values. We will simply become lunatics at every instance we are trusted and given freedom.

How is that true? If you were following curfew, you'd never even know your door was taped

I was a student on a team, and I know I wasn't always following curfew. Now that I'm partially responsible for the wellbeing of kids on my team, I don't want them having any unnecessary opportunities to get into trouble.

[JoshD]

This shows a lot of what is wrong with society. First, I don't care how much duct tape was on the door, there is no way it will keep the door from opening. Plus, the doors open inwards. Second, there is the general practice of suing people for little things that really don't matter.

I don't think there was any wrongdoing in this incident.

[Joe Matt]

Originally Posted by JoshD

First, I don't care how much duct tape was on the door, there is no way it will keep the door from opening. Plus, the doors open inwards.

Finally someone who has a brain, because I can tell you the whole state of Ohio doesn't or anyone working with the AP. This will change nothing, especially since an actual lawsuit going through the legal system is totally different than what is actually happening, some whiny parents complaining and throwing around loose threats.

[Jay Trzaskos]

I know that there are multiple teams and groups that follow the common practice of taping students in at night. This includes every school trip at my school district where students would be spending the night. There were certainly some exceptions on the robotics trips. For example drivers and scouts being taped in later on Friday nights once they got out of the pick meeting. But every student, regardless of years on the team, position on the team, or anything else, was taped in.

I know of a few teams that did not follow this practice, but after certain incidents they began and continue to follow this policy. I am in the general crowd of "Tape them in, if they follow curfew, they won't even know it's there." As long as the students are aware that they are being taped in, there should be no problems. If they need a mentor or chaperone they should be available by calling the chaperone's room.

[Tristan Lall]

Sure, tape them in. A lot of good that will do. If someone wants to break curfew, all they need to do is untape their door, and then untape all of the other doors.

As to the litigiousness, I think this is more a case of someone making idle threats. Consider that the article says "file charges", not "file suit". So it seems like they want to have the chaperone criminally indicted. Good luck with that. What would you charge them with, if the student was in fact able to open the door to exit in an emergency? Maybe there's a misdemeanour for violating the fire code?

[DonRotolo]

Well, it's not a lawsuit yet.

I have a feeling the kid and his parent misunderstood the quantity of tape being applied. An entire roll of good duct tape, carefully applied, might slow a hotel room door from opening in 130 milliseconds to, say, 480 mS, but surely the chaperones used a small strip (who has the time to really tape a whole door shut).

Now, if they had welded the door shut, I'd agree with the safety hazard. The hotel might frown upon that practice however.

Chapersones do need to account for some kids being more sensitive. We had a student one year who literally collapsed into tears when a man with dark skin walked towards him in the hallway. This poor businessman was just going to his room, and the kid had led an insulated life, and had never been within touching distance from someone who was not caucasian. It all ended well, but some time had to be spent calming him down. He is quite normal today, by the way.

So, all that had to happen was a statement form the chaperones: "We are putting a small strip of tape on your door, which will get unstuck if the door is opened. That's how we'll know if the door opened after curfew."


Don

PS:
Little did the chaperones know, but the astute student had learned how to re-stick the tape from inside the room...

[Protronie]

I sitting here shaking my head. Oh yeah there will be a lawsuit,and the school board will have many heated meetings over this. And there will be a few new rules and maybe someone will be forced to resign...

My question is....

Whats the big deal? Does anyone here really think that duct taping a door will keep it from opening? As for fire safety... smoke from the hall would have a tough time getting under the door.
Its a shame that someone felt the need to tape the door but I'm very sure they felt the need.
Its a shame the news media is jumping on this as they seem to be doing.
And its a shame that after this some will refuse to take kids on trips again and some groups might not be able to go on any future trips.

I guess next time they will just post a guard in the hall.

-p

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

So, all that had to happen was a statement form the chaperones: "We are putting a small strip of tape on your door, which will get unstuck if the door is opened. That's how we'll know if the door opened after curfew."

Agreed. There are high school students who do not travel and stay in hotels in groups unless they join a club or team. There isn't necessarily a lot of experience available to tap into as a resource or buffer. There's a lot of change, maturing, growth, and new experiences between 14 and 18, hopefully with some guidance along the way.

[intellec7]

In my opinion, this issue shouldn't have escalated into a lawsuit, but I can concede into understanding the frustration and worry that both the student and the parent feels.

It's uneasy to know that you're not trusted when you believe that you should be. Honestly, if a student can't be trusted, it's the trip coordinator's responsibility to not not grant that student the privilege of traveling. What is not the coordinator's responsibility is to create a 24-hour alarm system that makes it obvious when there has been an infraction. That's silly.

Those who may be accused of "thinking too much" might argue that a student may feel so uncomfortable, that if he or she awakes in the middle of the night and feels the need to obtain something to drink, that student might spend an uncomfortable night because of fear of the sever punishment that results from breaking curfew. Is that the type of system you want to employ: Instilling fear so that students abide by the rules? Of course it tends to work in society, but I'd like to think that any members of a robotics team would be a more mature than that.

It's about respect I think. We have a "watchdog" that monitors our halls when we go on trips. I honestly think she should be getting a good night's sleep instead of terrorizing kids by patrolling the traffic in our hallways.