Team 8 is proud to announce: SECOND

[Guy Davidson]

SECOND: Supporting the Engineering and CADding of Obscure New Devices.
We (three team 8 outgoing seniors) came up with a FIRST-like challenge. We are currently working on writing a rulebook for said challenge, and will hopefully release it in the near future. The goal of SECOND is to allow FIRST students the opportunity to strategize about a game, design a robot, and CAD one without the costs (and, of course, benefits) that come with actually building the robot.

Each entering team will submit a complete CAD of an FRC competition robot (preferably in Solidworks or Inventor), along with calculations as appropriate (for example, why certain gear ratios / wheel sizes were chosen for the drive train, supporting decisions made with regards to effectors and manipulators, such as motor choices or gear ratios) and a strategy outline, which explains the strategy and design approach of the robot.

We are welcoming as many teams as are interested to enter. As we are getting ready to release the rulebook, we will notify everyone interested. In the meantime, feel free to post here if you’re interested, or if you have any questions. If you would be interested in helping us flesh out the rulebook (or maybe even the challenge itself, after we are done outlining it), we would love your help, upon two conditions: one, that you are either an outgoing senior or a mentor in college or beyond, and two: that you do not reveal any details about the challenge until we officially release it, to keep it as FIRST-like as possible.

That’s all for now,

Mike, Dan, and Guy from Team 8

[Eugene Fang]

Noo!

SECOND is supposed to stand for SEniors COmbating Nothing to Do (presented by team 604)!

haha.

i really like your version of 'SECOND' too.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Originally Posted by Guy Davidson

SECOND: Supporting the Engineering and CADding of Obscure New Devices.
We (three team 8 outgoing seniors) came up with a FIRST-like challenge. We are currently working on writing a rulebook for said challenge, and will hopefully release it in the near future. The goal of SECOND is to allow FIRST students the opportunity to strategize about a game, design a robot, and CAD one without the costs (and, of course, benefits) that come with actually building the robot.

Each entering team will submit a complete CAD of an FRC competition robot (preferably in Solidworks or Inventor), along with calculations as appropriate (for example, why certain gear ratios / wheel sizes were chosen for the drive train, supporting decisions made with regards to effectors and manipulators, such as motor choices or gear ratios) and a strategy outline, which explains the strategy and design approach of the robot.

We are welcoming as many teams as are interested to enter. As we are getting ready to release the rulebook, we will notify everyone interested. In the meantime, feel free to post here if you’re interested, or if you have any questions. If you would be interested in helping us flesh out the rulebook (or maybe even the challenge itself, after we are done outlining it), we would love your help, upon two conditions: one, that you are either an outgoing senior or a mentor in college or beyond, and two: that you do not reveal any details about the challenge until we officially release it, to keep it as FIRST-like as possible.

That’s all for now,

Mike, Dan, and Guy from Team 8

This sounds awesome! Team 100 would love to enter!

I'd be happy to help design the rules/game. I've designed a few games for team 100's inner-team vex challenge. I can also keep a secret

The one thing I would like to know is how you expect to judge the designs. Or will they be judged at all? Since the designs won't be built in real-life it will be very hard to gauge their success. I think the best solution would be simply for teams to present their designs at a group get-together and for everyone to vote on their favorite.

[Guy Davidson]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

This sounds awesome! Team 100 would love to enter!

I'd be happy to help design the rules/game. I've designed a few games for team 100's inner-team vex challenge. I can also keep a secret

The one thing I would like to know is how you expect to judge the designs. Or will they be judged at all? Since the designs won't be built in real-life it will be very hard to gauge their success. I think the best solution would be simply for teams to present their designs at a group get-together and for everyone to vote on their favorite.

I'll send you a message sometime soon.

The designs will probably be judged based on a few yet undetermined criteria: for example, simplicity, maintainability, machinability, how well it achieves the challenge, how well thought out it is, etc. That is also in the list of things that still need to happen. The judging, hopefully, will be done by a committee of outgoing seniors and mentors, each filling a ballot about each entry that hasn't come from their team.

[Tim Arnold]

I think it would be cool to do re-designs from recycling old games, by the book. It would be interesting to see the fusing of designs, and would be a great off-season game. Not sure if it would be better to do several years in the past or the most current game in the summer time... like a re-build.

Anyway, cool idea! I'm sure many CD users will jump on the opportunity.

[Alex.Norton]

This sounds like a really cool idea. A couple of questions though:

1: Are you limiting entries to FIRST teams and high school aged kids or will it be possible for others to enter. Since I can't really take part in FIRST since I started college so I've been itching for a challenge.

2: If the case is that its limited to FIRST teams. I would love to help in anyway possible and currently have too much time on my hands. Anything I can do to help just send me a PM.

As I said I would love to help. This sounds like a very cool idea.

Alex Norton

[=Martin=Taylor=]

Originally Posted by Tim Arnold

I think it would be cool to do re-designs from recycling old games, by the book. It would be interesting to see the fusing of designs, and would be a great off-season game. Not sure if it would be better to do several years in the past or the most current game in the summer time... like a re-build.

Anyway, cool idea! I'm sure many CD users will jump on the opportunity.

I've always wanted to start a "Redesign Your XXXX Robot!" thread here on CD. I usually do this myself soon after the championship - combing many successful designs into one.

The reason I have never done this is because I think too many people would simply copy the Simbots/Beatty/Poofs without building off their designs.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

The reason I have never done this is because I think too many people would simply copy the Simbots/Beatty/Poofs without building off their designs.

I might be interested...but I have too much already.

And if you go back early enough, the odds of people having seen a design are slim. I might be able to do a rough sketch of 330's 1999 robot or later, maybe inaccurate 1997 or 1998, detailed 2003-2007, rough again 2008, but I don't think many others would be able to do pre-2005 easily without having been on the team. So old games might actually be a pretty good source of inspiration.

It's on, foolios.

Now, all I need to do is select which arm design to pair with which drive base, then design a manipulator. Having an enormous FIRST self done CAD library is awesome.

[JesseK]

So how are we judging the practicality of these designs? I can design a lot in CAD that would seem to work ok until I put it to the test in the real world.

As an example, we may put lightweight 1/4" thick 5053 Aluminum rods for our drive train axles but in the real world we know they simply wouldn't be able to stand the stress of a real competition.

Even so, there are 2 returning students who want a jump start on CAD for next year so bring it on

[cbale2000]

Blast, you used the acronym before I could! And here I was going to try and start a FIRST-like competition for college students (Why should high schoolers get all the fun?).

Maybe I can find a neat acronym for "Zero" (Second is after FIRST, so I'll try for before FIRST), it might work...


Z *Something*
E ngineering
R obotics
O rganization

Gotta figure out what to do with that silly Z.

[A_Reed]

As a college student I would be very interested especially if it were a summer challenge, I plan on listening in and designing something even if I can't turn it on time. It sounds like fun and would give me a chance to expand my Library with some creative new gizmos and grippers, heck I might actually inspire my team to think about offense a little bit more when it comes to next years design .

[James1902]

I'm game, how long will we have once the "game" is announced? Or is it going to be more of a submit from this date-this date kind of thing?

[Blue_Mist]

Originally Posted by cbale2000

Blast, you used the acronym before I could! And here I was going to try and start a FIRST-like competition for college students (Why should high schoolers get all the fun?).

Maybe I can find a neat acronym for "Zero" (Second is after FIRST, so I'll try for before FIRST), it might work...


Z *Something*
E ngineering
R obotics
O rganization

Gotta figure out what to do with that silly Z.

Z Zany
E Engineering
R Robotics
O Organization

I'm definitely up for the challenge! And I will need to somehow immerse myself in FIRST after I get to college... My life revolves around FIRST. I shudder to think all that I would have missed had the 2005 team decided not to visit our science classroom, back in 8th grade.

[CarterM]

Anyone have any more details about this (Team 8)? I'm getting kind of confused.
I would enjoy participating when it happens.