Wireless Networks at Competitions

[cooker52]

The question is, do we need to have permission to set up wireless networks at competitions for scouting? We are just asking now because we started to develop our system after regionals.

My next worry is for next year. The robots will be capable of being wirelessly programmed, so how will that effect wireless scouting?

[AndyB]

That is a good question. I remember reading this year that in Atlanta for the Championship, there were to be no wireless networks set up. Most likely because of the new control system.

At this point in time, I would say no to wireless networks, but only time will tell. My best advice would be to create a plan B scouting system just in case.

[Binome]

Its simple. Don't use 802.11b/g/n
Use 802.11a and you should be in the clear, as there are no interference problems as it runs on a totally different band.

[Cory]

I would be shocked if FIRST allows any wireless networks next year.

[EricH]

I know FIRST has one, but it's official business only. (uploading results/webcast)

I think you would because FIRST will want to remove interference as much as possible. Then again, ask as soon as Q&A comes up for next year and you may get a different answer.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Binome

Its simple. Don't use 802.11b/g/n
Use 802.11a and you should be in the clear, as there are no interference problems as it runs on a totally different band.

If I remember the discussion with the NI representative correctly, some of the demo equipment was running on 802.11a, and other equipment was on 802.11g, at the last Championship. As of April, it wasn't known which implementation was going to be used.

[RyanN]

I've tried writing this post twice because I see the reasons to have a wireless network and to not have a wireless network. I know at certain venues you were not allowed to host your own wireless network. Wireless next year will be pretty touchy.

Robots will be wireless (as with any other year it has been), but next year it will be using an 802.11a/b/g/n signal. Probably not n, but it will definitely be one of those four. With any wireless network there will probably be interference (FM radio by my cable modem causes tons of interference that makes my radio useless in its location.) There is so much that is uncertain right now with the control system next year. I'm still wondering how they will keep other teams from accidentally or purposely (bad GP) messing with other team's robots through the wireless programming. At competition, I would almost bet that they would make teams program via ethernet cable and tether, much like they have done for many years.

Since so much is uncertain at this point, no one can clearly say. For now I would say no, wireless computer communication will not be allowed in any way, shape, or form.

[EHaskins]

I realize that the additional wireless networks may cause interference, but so do all of the wireless networks FIRST can't regulate, and the 2.4 GHz cordless phones, and Bluetooth, and anything else that happens to run at 2.4 GHz.

Personally I don't think that any such restrictions would be practical or even possible to enforce, and if the new control system can't handle some other networks in the same area, then we're going to have some big problems next year, especially with the number of wireless networks growing like they are.

EDIT: I have to think that the best way for FIRST to go is to use 802.11a, which is almost non-existant these days, and let us do whatever we want in the 2.4Ghz area. The only issue would be bandwidth.

[galewind]

but hey, as an aside, hoepfully they'll allow two-way radios again!

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Cory

I would be shocked if FIRST allows any wireless networks next year.

In the words of Mr. T, I pity the fool who would have to enforce that rule.

"Excuse me, Mr. Legimate Businessman next to arena. It seems that we are picking up some signals from your Wifi network next door. I'm sorry, but your Wifi might screw with our robots. Please stop doing business these next three days so we can play."

If FIRST genuinely thinks they can outright ban and expect to find no wireless networks at any of the Regional and/or Championship competition venues, they have some serious hubris issues.

[Lions for First]

Originally Posted by galewind

but hey, as an aside, hoepfully they'll allow two-way radios again!

that would be nice it was hard to keep everyone organized just useing cell phones

[Cory]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

In the words of Mr. T, I pity the fool who would have to enforce that rule.

"Excuse me, Mr. Legimate Businessman next to arena. It seems that we are picking up some signals from your Wifi network next door. I'm sorry, but your Wifi might screw with our robots. Please stop doing business these next three days so we can play."

If FIRST genuinely thinks they can outright ban and expect to find no wireless networks at any of the Regional and/or Championship competition venues, they have some serious hubris issues.

I meant team networks, which are also nearly impossible to police if the team doesn't put anything identifying in the network id.

[Pat Fairbank]

Originally Posted by galewind

but hey, as an aside, hoepfully they'll allow two-way radios again!

Not too likely, considering FIRST uses them for communication between volunteers. Someone with a two-way radio could probably wreak a lot of havok with team queuing/event management.

[EHaskins]

Originally Posted by Pat Fairbank

Not too likely, considering FIRST uses them for communication between volunteers. Someone with a two-way radio could probably wreak a lot of havok with team queuing/event management.

True, but if someone was going to do that I don't think the rules would make a difference.

[EricVanWyk]

A few notes:

1) No official policy for 2009 has been released. Speculation on said policy is not useful at this time.

2) Planning to violate said unknown policy is not useful and goes well against the spirit of FIRST.

3) If said unknown policy does forbid certain types of networks, and you knowingly ignore the policy, I can and will find you. At that point, I will personally tell your grandmothers what you did.

This isn't a matter of whether or not an unknown policy makes sense. This is a matter of doing the right thing.

As for whether or not the policy will make sense when it is known, have a little faith.