Farewell, Chief Delphi.

[Steve W]

John, as always you exude maturity well beyond your years. You also had the courage to say what I was afraid to. Thanks for bringing your thoughts forward.

[John Neun]

Wow, John (VN), nice post! I don't know Craig, but he is obviously somebody who has spent a lot of time and invested a lot of effort in FIRST. While your comments may seem harsh, in my experience they ring very true. I hope Craig takes you up on your offer for discussion.

(OK, my opinion of JVN is NOT unbiased!)

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by JVN

Maybe "change" is exactly what is called for in this situation. Either self-change, or a change of scenery.

...

A wise man once told me: "If you continually find yourself in negative conflict with people, they probably aren't the problem, you are; it is probably a good idea to change the way you approach your social interactions & the way you communicate."

Something you are doing is causing these conflicts and maybe some self reflection could help you understand why. This is an opportunity for self-improvement.

...

PS - A farewell POST is just a cry for attention; not a farewell.
You don't want to leave, and I bet you're probably reading this right now.

JVN is a very wise man. I knew that before this post, but this post certainly reinforced that for me. The first point he made that I've quoted is definitely good food for thought for all of us reading this post. The second thing I've quoted is also a very good point. It made me think about myself, and I think this thread has brought up a good opportunity for self-reflection for all of us. Finally, after reading this thread about seven times, I'm going to agree with JVN on his PS note. I was thinking nearly the same thing, but he phrased it better than I could have.

[Carlee10]

Originally Posted by JVN

-Change to avoid the conflicts.

I believe that if he is was unfairly judged for thinking differently, that he shouldn't have to change what he thinks and feels. I mean, once you've posted and done it in the kindest, most non-inflammatory way possible, and people still say nasty things(and I don't mean red dots), then you are not the problem. I think we may be going a step too far to say he wants attention from a last post, but maybe he just wants to lay out what he thinks, and why he's doing what he's doing. Yes, he may be looking at these, but just to see what happens. Maybe he doesn't "fit in", but I thought that FIRST accepted anyone, no matter what. Yes, maybe Craig should've learned to roll with the punches, but, you know, that can get tiring after a while, trying to shrug off personal attacks. I've had that happen to me before, not in here, but in other situations. It is difficult when people keep telling you that you're wrong, or to be quiet, or that you don't fit in a certain group or area so get out. Maybe its all a big misunderstanding; I just feel that no one should be made to feel like this. Whether or not it was the best possible choice, he did what he thought was best.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by JVN

....

Folks/John,

I think that John's message is useful and interesting; but off-target at this moment.

When I reviewed several months of CraigHickman posts, I did not see any reason for him to have received unusual flak over any of the recent ones.

However, he tells us that he did receive recent private messages that he felt were degrading and/or "assaults" from 10 or more separate people; some of whom he had "looked up to" before the recent exchanges. Think about it: 10 separate people saw fit to recently send him harshly critical messages rather than write public posts that would have expressed their viewpoints with equal vehemence or perhaps more civilly.

Dang - That sounds like the problem that needs to be addressed - Hopefully those 10 folks will read some of KathieK's advice (and John's too while they are at it).

Craig could air that dirty laundry by posting the contents of those messages publicly, and then see the lid really blow off the pot as people both take sides in the "debates" that ensue, and become worried about FIRST's public image being tarnished because CD members occasionally light a few flames.

Instead he seems to have taken into account that people are often more upset that a problem is made public than they are about the problem existing; and so has decided to move on.

Like I said, John's advice is worth remembering, but for me it doesn't line up well with my perception of this situation.

Blake
PS: No, I don't think that we should grab pitchforks and torches, and then go find those 10 other people.

[JaneYoung]

I've thought about the PM aspect of this and what I've come up with is that no one is immune. PMs can be as thoughtful and well-written as some posts in the fora. They can also be hastily written with little attempt at a civil tone. I've been the recipient of both types of PMs and I think it is fairly common. Are the PMs that cause ill feelings, good? No. Can more care be taken when crafting the message? Likely. Are the PMs anyone's business? No, unless a moderator is contacted for help. The PM aspect is none of our collective business. That said, how we communicate either publicly or privately in ChiefDelphi, shows the measure of our maturity and our professionalism in conducting ourselves as members of FIRST.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by JVN

A wise man once told me: "If you continually find yourself in negative conflict with people, they probably aren't the problem, you are; it is probably a good idea to change the way you approach your social interactions & the way you communicate."

Something you are doing is causing these conflicts and maybe some self reflection could help you understand why. This is an opportunity for self-improvement.

awesome post JVN
could not have put it better myself


everyone should really read the post in its entirety

[Alex.Norton]

Originally Posted by gblake

Folks/John,

I think that John's message is useful and interesting; but off-target at this moment.

While I agree with you that CraigHickman has never posted anything worthy of a negative comment or an excessively critical PM (quite frankly I have almost never seen anything worthy of this on CD) I think the fact that this thread exists shows that at least to a certain amount Craig needed to think longer about the situation. If he wasn't feeling hurt and in need of venting he would have informed his closer friends and left it at that. Even though he didn't directly air his dirty laundry, to a certain amount he has and IMO JVN hit the nail on the head when he said it was a cry for attention.

I have seen farewell threads on numerous other forums and they always fill me with a certain amount of shame in the community that I'm a part of. But much more importantly they always seem to be posted by a person who I had a great deal of respect for, who posted interesting threads, put forward new and perhaps controversial ideas and was a large part of that community. While this is usually the reason that they are leaving it always causes me to loose a lot of the respect that I one held for that person.

I don't tend to be a large part of online communities (or for that matter local communities) and this is something that I'm always trying hard to work on. Someday I hope to have as much presence here as Craig still seems to, despite leaving, and that he rethinks his decision, or at least takes up many of the people on their offers to help him resolve the conflict.

I will miss seeing his excellent CAD work in the gallery and his thought provoking posts on the forums. I'm not going to try and tell him their "just dots" because I put more importance in my own "dots" than that but I do hope he takes the negative comments less personally.

[FourPenguins]

Reading these replies, I see a divergence in the philosophy of the posters. Of the two camps asking Craig to stay, there are those who say he should keep on plugging despite the adversity, and those who say that he should look within himself for a solution.
I tend to fall in the third camp. If Craig wants to leave CD for a while, that is entirely his right. I agree with a lot of the grievances he has with this forum. Yes, this forum is sterling compared to the majority of other forums on the internet, but you can't excuse your own failure just because no one else seems to be getting it right. Craig makes some good points, and I think we should all learn from them (like JVN is proposing to Craig) instead of getting our dander up. In reality, there are no sides to this issue. I think it's pretty clear that if he isn't back now, he won't be back. He's done with high school and he's moving on to a new stage of life. I am too. I might post on CD from time to time, but college is my time to be selfish. I'm taking a break from FIRST to focus on my own life, my own studies, and my own betterment. I think Craig's doing the same. He's just reached his own breaking point, and he needs to spend some time to work it out alone. Let him go in peace.

[acdcfan259]

I really don't see how this is a big deal. If he wants to leave, so be it.

[Joe G.]

I really don't see how this is a big deal. If he wants to leave, so be it.

Because, if someone leaves because of our actions, even if some of us think they are wrong to do so, should we really just go "eh, who cares?"

[Dmentor]

It is sometimes unsettling to discover that the only thing in life that we can truly control is ourselves. We often want others around us to change but we can’t force them to do so. We can however be a catalyst for change. We can be forceful or eloquent in stating our desires for change but ultimately change itself is personal. I will note that societies use education, laws, coercion and punishment as effective implements to encourage change. FIRST uses inspiration (among many other things).

Understanding this changes nothing (in that your surrounding environment isn’t affected) and yet it changes everything (in that your outlook can be completely different). This observation applies to work, marriage, handling crisis… anywhere really. When confronted with conflict, I have tried to condition myself to ask “How do I want to respond?” Many times though, just like Pavlov’s dogs, I just “react” and later sort out the consequences. Importantly though reflecting on these reactions, consequences and my desired behavior often leads me to want to change myself.

So from philosophical to constructive… I think JVN has it nailed in terms of Craig’s possible personal responses. However, we ALL have the opportunity to change as well. Craig’s note is feedback that can be used constructively as a catalyst for us to change ourselves or… we could shrug and change nothing.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by FourPenguins

Reading these replies, I see a divergence in the philosophy of the posters. Of the two camps asking Craig to stay, there are those who say he should keep on plugging despite the adversity, and those who say that he should look within himself for a solution.
I tend to fall in the third camp. If Craig wants to leave CD for a while, that is entirely his right. I agree with a lot of the grievances he has with this forum. Yes, this forum is sterling compared to the majority of other forums on the internet, but you can't excuse your own failure just because no one else seems to be getting it right. Craig makes some good points, and I think we should all learn from them (like JVN is proposing to Craig) instead of getting our dander up. In reality, there are no sides to this issue. I think it's pretty clear that if he isn't back now, he won't be back. He's done with high school and he's moving on to a new stage of life. I am too. I might post on CD from time to time, but college is my time to be selfish. I'm taking a break from FIRST to focus on my own life, my own studies, and my own betterment. I think Craig's doing the same. He's just reached his own breaking point, and he needs to spend some time to work it out alone. Let him go in peace.

There is a big difference between leaving on good and bad terms. Many people do take a break from FIRST as they leave high school, it's typically a "We'll miss you, you should come to *insert regional here* for a day or two, to see what you missed, and we can't wait to see you back in a year or two!" Craig seems to have left on a much sourer note. If he's left feeling badly about the situation, I don't see much of a reason why he'd want to come back to FIRST period.

I think if Craig wanted to leave to do his own thing, he would have a departure similar to the first scenario I mentioned. However, he left essentially saying, "Some of you guys have problems respecting ideas. I can't take that. I'm leaving." He even enumerated how many there were, opening a whole new can of worms. He didn't air an entire basket of dirty laundry, but he started emptying it, and left the rest of it barely out of reach. I think that's why there's such a huge discussion, and what prompted John's response.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by acdcfan259

I really don't see how this is a big deal. If he wants to leave, so be it.

Dude, i totally agree...and Rocketperson, I'm 100% sure that Craig knows of his own actions, everyone should just back off because he's made up his mind, and if you've actually read his posts and have seen how he argues and supports his ideas, you would know that he will not be changing his mind about leaving CD.

Just let it go..seriously.

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

Dude, i totally agree...and Rocketperson, I'm 100% sure that Craig knows of his own actions, everyone should just back off because he's made up his mind, and if you've actually read his posts and have seen how he argues and supports his ideas, you would know that he will not be changing his mind about leaving CD.

Just let it go..seriously.

I'm not saying that he dosen't have a right to leave, or that he is going to be back here any minute. I'm saying that we should look at ourselves, and why he left. His post is dead on. This should be the reason for the discussion, not an effort to drag Craig back here.


Picture CD (the forums, not FRC#47) as a FRC team. If a mentor decided to leave your own team for similar reasons, would you say "oh well, we'll just keep on doing what we've been doing," or would you stop and think about why they left? You cannot and should not force that person back, but you can at least think about what caused it.