Farewell, Chief Delphi.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by rocketperson44

I'm saying that we should look at ourselves, and why he left.

There is much wisdom in these last few posts.
Perhaps addressing how we work together and communicate with each other in Chief Delphi and how those interactions impact the community is stuff for another thread, esp. if the discussion is going to continue to reflect differing opinions.

This thread is basically a swan song...I would hate to see it crumple into frustrated emotional posts.

.02

[StephLee]

I've been following this thread, and I finally decided to throw a pair of pennies in...

I've seen the phrase "cry for attention" thrown about a good bit. Perhaps the community should consider whether it's a call for attention to, not Craig, but the actions of the community.

Telling people to deal with this issue or that person is all well and good, but the flip side of the same advice is to consider whether YOUR actions have at any point made you a person to be dealt with rather than enjoyed.

Every person should be able to deal with every other person...but no one should ever want to be the one who's dealt with. Expect of yourself that which is too high for you to expect of others, and you'll never be undeservedly disappointed.

[/$.02]

[FourPenguins]

Originally Posted by StephLee

I've seen the phrase "cry for attention" thrown about a good bit. Perhaps the community should consider whether it's a call for attention to, not Craig, but the actions of the community.

I think this is an excellent point. In order for CD to be a place where people feel welcome, I think we need to look closely at what we say and do here. I think that the younger posters sometimes forget their manners, and the older posters sometimes forget they're dealing with teenagers. CD needs to be a safe haven for ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and also mistakes. This is especially true when someone questions the establishment. If Craig, or anyone else, questions FIRST or the FIRST community in a mature, polite way, we should look at what he or she is saying, rather than shun the heretic. I think many CDers are quick to ostracize anyone who doesn't adhere to the FIRST party line. FIRST is not perfect. FIRST teams are not perfect. Even Woody, Dean, and Dave are not perfect. The only way we're going to approach perfection is if we listen to the people with ideas instead of calling them ungrateful or un-GP.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by StephLee

I've seen the phrase "cry for attention" thrown about a good bit. Perhaps the community should consider whether it's a call for attention to, not Craig, but the actions of the community.

Then he should have posted in one of the several existing threads about that issue, such as this one. He even posted in that thread. He may have attempted to make it seem like that's what this thread is about, but in reality he's attempting to martyr himself to this cause.
If he decided that he no longer feels his time is best invested on these forums, so be it.

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Then he should have posted in one of the several existing threads about that issue, such as this one. He even posted in that thread. He may have attempted to make it seem like that's what this thread is about, but in reality he's attempting to martyr himself to this cause.
If he decided that he no longer feels his time is best invested on these forums, so be it.

Many of those threads are JUST pretty faces. People see them, read them, agree with them, and keep on doing what they do. It may not be what is supposed to happen but you know as well as I do that is the case. Just because we read something and think its a good idea doesn't necessarily mean we follow it.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Pavan Dave

Many of those threads are JUST pretty faces. People see them, read them, agree with them, and keep on doing what they do. It may not be what is supposed to happen but you know as well as I do that is the case. Just because we read something and think its a good idea doesn't necessarily mean we follow it.

This thread is no different, other than the original poster intentionally martyred himself instead of later getting crucified for acting on the ideals.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

This thread is no different, other than the original poster intentionally martyred himself instead of later getting crucified for acting on the ideals.

I may have missed something. At what point did he become the martyr? He is still alive and well. He just chose to leave. A martyr kills himself to inspire his cause. He just left a message after decided to leave. He had no intention of raising tension. He did not kill himself. He just chose to say good bye. If I missed something, please give me a quote of where he made himself a martyr. Otherwise, please stop making false allegations.

[Joe G.]

I'm starting to think that this thread should be closed. We have already said nearly everything that can short of the personal attacks that this thread was started up against. In short of that, everyone, please read the origional post a few times before posting in this thread. As Pavan said, we are just reading these ideas, and then ignoring them. Craig left for a reason, and we should at least notice what that reason was, and not just keep on doing exactly what caused him to leave.

[tim_reiher]

Originally Posted by rocketperson44

I'm starting to think that this thread should be closed. We have already said nearly everything that can short of the personal attacks that this thread was started up against.

I agree with Joe here. This thread is starting to get a little hostile, and I really hope it doesn't turn into a flame war. These forums certainly don't need anymore of that. This thread should stay civil, and if no one has anything else new to say, or the thread does degrade into a flame war, it probably does deserve to be closed.

EDIT: I fully believe that people should express their views. I also believe, and see proof of every day on CD, that views can, and should be expressed without hostility. Hostility leads to flaming. Flaming puts a sad scar on this community. Also, there is no point in beating a dead horse by saying something that has been said many times already by other posters.

[RyanN]

Well I have read the whole thread, and now I am going to completely ignore what everyone else has said and say what I think. I'm going to go on two perspectives.

First of all, rudeness in the world should not exist. People get mad when someone tells them something mean. World conflicts, divorces, government issues, pesky neighbors, racism... all are caused by conflict. Is there anyway to avoid all conflict, no, but each of us (the world) can do our part to make the world a better place. I never tell anyone they are stupid, an idiot, or anything else rude unless it is in a cheerful and joking manner, even then it may not be acceptable. Almost everyday at robotics one of the team members calls me stupid for giving my opinion, even opinions that turn out to be correct.

Me, I just ignore whatever that person says. Some people are just rude because that is there personality, no matter how much everybody else hates it. Volunteers in FIRST have been rude to me before, and I just take it as a fact that people have their own problems and take it out on the first person they meet.

While I cannot even come close to promising that things will get better, you are the only one that can make a difference. If you believe that what these people have said to you is reason enough to leave FIRST, then you should contact the appropriate people to attempt to have this problem fixed so it does not happen to someone else. The damage is already done. What you must do is try to fix the damage before the damage comes back and hurts someone else.

(Going with the posts above)
I believe this thread is not only a cry for help, but a warning to those who do have done these things that it will come back to haunt them. FIRST is an organization that focuses on "Gracious Professionalism" and everyone involved in the organization should exemplify these standards, not just the teams.

EDIT:
I just re-read Craig's post, and I have one more thing to say. I'm talking about the part where he said a power-delusional person kicked him off the team.

I believe the problem with a lot of this world is the use of vertical communication (and if Coach Rusty reads this for some odd reason, I hope I represent you well, as this has really made me think about how people organize businesses).

Vertical communication is a way of communicating from a boss or leader and going down the ladder to the lowest person such as the person who cleans up after everyone is done. Vertical communication corrupts. Also, thought I might add this quote in from somewhere "absolute power corrupts absolutely."

On our team we use horizontal communication. Everybody is basically equal and have the same opportunities. I am the team leader/president/boss so to speak, but on any given day, you would not be able to tell this unless you were on the team and you received emails from me once a week on upcoming events. I do not boss people around and I hate to make anyone mad. I try to do my best to be patient and practice gracious professionalism all the time (to prove it, I taught about 10 elementary and middle school students how to program their VEX robots with MPLAB today). I delegate my tasks to everyone else. Whenever someone has a problem or a question they come to me and I will try to send them to the right person if I cannot help. Today I took out the trash at Fusion, a job that would be looked upon by most as disgusting, especially since whatever was in that bag has had a few days to ripen after all the rain lately. I guess really our team is setup without a president. I'm like the secretary. I have no power to do anything, but I relay information to the team. The only person who has the power to kick someone off the team is the teacher, and he can only do so based on people's behavior and grades. I also look at that person like I would a co-worker. He's not special in anyway except he's the teacher and the one that buys everything and makes sure everyone's grades are up to par.

Here is a good article of what I'm trying to convey: http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/c...full/40/24/4-a

[acdcfan259]

This is still going on! My god as I said before, I see no reason for this to be a big deal. He just said he was leaving the forums. It's not like he's dropping out of school or something important. And just because he decides to leave the forum doesn't mean he won't be involved in FIRST. This whole thread has been blown way out of proportion. We've lost sight of the actual topic at hand and I think it's time we retired this thread.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by acdcfan259

This is still going on! My god as I said before, I see no reason for this to be a big deal. He just said he was leaving the forums. It's not like he's dropping out of school or something important. And just because he decides to leave the forum doesn't mean he won't be involved in FIRST. This whole thread has been blown way out of proportion. We've lost sight of the actual topic at hand and I think it's time we retired this thread.

ok, so here's a thought...
yup, another one...

In most cases, the OP can request the thread closed at any time.
In this case, I dunno but perhaps you could.

Another catch to this thread is that we have moderators posting in it so I'm not sure how that works. Maybe you could PM Mr. Mike Martus and ask him to close the thread or ask his advice - if you feel that it is warranted.

The thread seems to be sort of roller coaster-ish but hasn't totally degenerated into 'crumple' yet. That's an .02 though, nothing more.

I think I am finished with posting here. Play nice people.

[GaryVoshol]

Wow Amanda, that's painting with a rather broad brush, is it not? I agree that there is chaff to sort through to find the really important posts. But I continue to visit CD just to find that good stuff. I can pick and choose topics to read based on my interest. Still, we have some of the "greats" of the program that come to post here (and I include you in that assessment) - without which, we would be sorely deficient in getting good information. So if your point was only intended to be "play nice, or all the good people will go home", then I agree.

Back to Craig, I don't recall a lot about him. I don't think I ever met him, nor do I recall anything specific about his posts like some of the others on this thread have stated. I wasn't aware of any of his difficulties with a team. I do seem to recall him as being a contentious person. That's not necessarily bad - sometimes we need people who will stick up for what they believe in, even if they ruffle a few feathers doing it. People like Gandhi, MLK Jr, and the Founding Fathers come to mind. The contentious person must realize that his or her opinions will not be popular with everyone. If that only means red dots or flaming posts, I think that person has not been unduly harmed. The contentious person will also have to realize that some people will argue and attempt to point out the error of his ways. That can be handled more or less professionally and graciously - but just because someone disagrees with you and tries to point out errors in your arguements doesn't mean you are being crucified.

Craig is at a transition point in his life. If he chooses to find another outlet for his talents, and another inlet for continued inspiration, that is up to him. That happens to many people, and it's beneficial. In fact I think there are far too many who attempt to hang on too long after they graduate, trying to relive their HS years on the team after that part of their life is ended. We all have to move on or move up at some point. Craig has chosen to move on. It would be more critical if he had come here and said, "I'm going into my senior year, but because of the treatment I've received I'm going to leave my team and just chuck it."

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Molten

I may have missed something. At what point did he become the martyr? He is still alive and well. He just chose to leave. A martyr kills himself to inspire his cause. He just left a message after decided to leave. He had no intention of raising tension. He did not kill himself. He just chose to say good bye. If I missed something, please give me a quote of where he made himself a martyr. Otherwise, please stop making false allegations.

Yup, you did miss something. The word martyr has more meanings than killing oneself to further a cause.

Originally Posted by American Heritage Dictionary

mar·tyr n.
3b. One who makes a great show of suffering in order to arouse sympathy.

I believe this is the definition that Sean was getting at.

[Carlee10]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

but in reality he's attempting to martyr himself to this cause.

Martyr is a strong word. I would not use it lightly.