Go to Post Tell the truth - that's really a small barbecue grill on that robot isn't it. - Tom Line [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Technical Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-06-2008, 11:25
Dick Linn's Avatar
Dick Linn Dick Linn is offline
Registered User
no team (Synergy)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 679
Dick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Dick Linn
Indexer invention

I thought some of you might appreciate this elegant indexer that was invented in 1971, and made it into the Smithsonian as the 28th "basic mechanism" ever invented. The cool part is that this thread was just recently started by the inventor himself. Who would have ever thought of a use for gears with a non-integer number of teeth?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...d.php?t=159279

Here is a video of how it works: http://www.newbould.com/PM/indexer.MPG
__________________
Richard Linn

Proud father of Marine LCpl. Karl R. Linn
Co-founder Team 975
KIA, Iraq 1/26/2005
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-06-2008, 12:57
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
Joining the 900 Meme Team
FRC #0079
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,068
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indexer invention

I am not going to claim I understand any of what it does but I feel this man is a great inspiration to all of us. Thanks for sharing.
__________________




.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-06-2008, 14:19
s_forbes's Avatar
s_forbes s_forbes is offline
anonymous internet person
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,143
s_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indexer invention

Wow, that's clever! Problem solving is fun, especially when you come off with a solution as good as that. Thanks for posting.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-06-2008, 16:48
Mr. Freeman Mr. Freeman is offline
Put better title here.
AKA: Kellan
no team (CSM Robotics)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 198
Mr. Freeman is a splendid one to beholdMr. Freeman is a splendid one to beholdMr. Freeman is a splendid one to beholdMr. Freeman is a splendid one to beholdMr. Freeman is a splendid one to beholdMr. Freeman is a splendid one to beholdMr. Freeman is a splendid one to behold
Re: Indexer invention

I'm somewhat confused, what's the point of removing teeth from one of the gears and how does that make the number of teeth a non-integer number?
__________________
"Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so."
-Douglas Adams
“Why is it that I can walk into Wal-Mart and buy boxes of bullets and black powder, but I can’t buy potassium perchlorate to do science because it can also be used to make explosives?”
-Theodore Gray
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-06-2008, 17:58
MrForbes's Avatar
MrForbes MrForbes is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim
FRC #1726 (N.E.R.D.S.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Sierra Vista AZ
Posts: 6,017
MrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond reputeMrForbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indexer invention

I'm waiting till next weekend when we see s_forbes (4th of July) and he can take the time to explain it to me
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-06-2008, 18:06
s_forbes's Avatar
s_forbes s_forbes is offline
anonymous internet person
FRC #0842 (Falcon Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,143
s_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond reputes_forbes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indexer invention

This is the way I understand the device (I may be off a little, so don't trust me too much ):

The goal is to have an indexing mechanism that is accurate to within 1 minute (exactly 1/60 of a degree). Just to put that in perspective, one entire circle is 360 [degrees] * 60 [minutes/degree] = 21600 minutes in total.

The obvious way to do this is to just have a gear with 21600 teeth on it right? Well... that's a little hard to make. So lets go about this in a more clever way.

Lets say that instead you have two gear meshes, one that offsets every 60 minutes (1 degree) and one that offsets every 61 minutes. so, if you want a total offset of 1 minute, you increment the 61 minute mesh forward one step, and move the 60 minute mesh back one step. Total change = +61 minutes - 60 minutes = 1 minute. Hooray!

The tricky part is building it.... The 60 minute one is pretty easy to do: you have 21600 minutes / 60 minutes = 360 increments. So, you machine a gear mesh that has exactly 360 teeth. Each step is then 60 minutes.

The other mesh isn't so easy... 21600 minutes / 61 minutes = 354.09836 teeth. So you just need a gear that has 354.09836 teeth on it (non-integer! gah!). Good luck.

So what Newbould did is he made a gear that has effectively 354.09836 teeth on it. This gear then has a little half-tooth or space in it to make it the right size. But in order to mesh two of these gears together, you need a gap in one for the little half tooth to rest. Hence the section of no teeth on one of the faces.


At least that's how I understand the concept, someone feel free to correct me if I'm way off.

EDIT: note that for the mesh that increments by 61 minutes, the gap only needs to allow for about 60 increments. For example: if you want to add 74 minutes, you would actually add one degree (notch the 60 minute mesh forward one) and 14 minutes (14 forward on the 61 minute step, and 14 back on the 60 minute step). Because of this, the gap in the 61 minute mesh would only take up about a third of the circle, leaving plenty of teeth engaged for the indexer to work properly.

Last edited by s_forbes : 29-06-2008 at 22:43. Reason: I think I understand it better now...
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-06-2008, 19:10
=Martin=Taylor= =Martin=Taylor= is offline
run the trap!!!
FRC #0100 (The Wild Hat Society)
Team Role: Human Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Bezerkeley, California
Posts: 1,255
=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute=Martin=Taylor= has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Indexer invention

So what its like a really accurate dividing head? (aka an indexing head)
__________________
"Cooperation; because life is a team sport"
-Philip J. Fry
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 30-06-2008, 19:00
Dick Linn's Avatar
Dick Linn Dick Linn is offline
Registered User
no team (Synergy)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Midlothian, VA
Posts: 679
Dick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond reputeDick Linn has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Dick Linn
Re: Indexer invention

Steven, sounds like you understand it, or peeked at the inventor's explanation of it in his first post on the link I posted above You ought to post your observations on the Practical Machinist site thread.

I think Mr. Newbould's goal was to have something simple and direct reading that didn't require look up tables or a lot of addition or a lot of cranking. He was trying to solve a problem in his production machine shop.

I can see myself coming up with a gear with a non-integer number of teeth (if I were ever to try machining one), but then I'd be wondering why the robot made funny grinding noises and wouldn't run. (I did remove about 60 degrees worth of teeth on my Jeep's pinion gear once, but that wasn't for indexing clearance. )

Incidentally, folks, if any of you can locate some of the esteemed members of the Practical Machinist forum in your area and get them as a team resource, you'd be doing good. There are some very talented people there. A couple have mentioned FIRST Robotics, and I've plugged it several times.

FYI, Newbould's current product web site: http://www.newbould.com/Newbould01/index.htm
__________________
Richard Linn

Proud father of Marine LCpl. Karl R. Linn
Co-founder Team 975
KIA, Iraq 1/26/2005
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Invention help Tytus Gerrish Dean Kamen's Inventions 22 07-08-2006 12:15
pic: Camp Invention CD47-Bot Extra Discussion 7 18-06-2004 13:00
re-invention? Tom Bottiglieri Technical Discussion 14 22-02-2004 20:34
Invention Showdown Joe Matt Dean Kamen's Inventions 7 11-06-2002 16:25
Kamen's Invention Revealed? Leon Machado IV Rumor Mill 4 28-08-2001 15:42


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi