**FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System

[Greg Needel]

The main reason I agree with FIRST in this case is mainly because of time frame. While as someone who is starting a rookie team this year I would love to get my hands on a controller the right decision has been made.

If teams chosen will be getting the controller September 15th and will be doing work for a couple months. The issues I see is the time frame for fixing problems before kickoff. If a team discovers a hardware or interface bug there will be little or no time to fix it before they need to be in the kits. Putting it in the hands of teams that may have the ability to fix those problems will be crucial.

For example it was veterans who came up with the new match pairing algorithm. Back in the Hatch days I remember watching some of my peers debugging the Hatch software on the fly week one so the other regonals could go off. I am not saying that young teams don't have the expertise to do this, but I would rather put my money on someone who has a track record of success.

As for the arguments about giving veteran teams a huge advantage let me put it bluntly. The teams in question constantly have that advantage over everyone else. While it may not be as obvious as this situation when it comes down to it those teams have the experience, the resources, the people, and ultimately the right combination that can only come from years of hard work. If you honestly think that getting your controller a few months early will magically boost your performance to that of 1114, 330, 245, and others you are sadly mistaken. If you are a good team then the shared experiences of the other veterans will make you stronger, and if you are struggling rookie team don't worry other people will have your back.

[Ken Patton]

One thing that teams who are submitting Beta-test proposals could do - and I promise I will look for it in evaluating proposals - is to clearly show how they are going to make it better for the new teams to get running without the major efforts that the Beta-test teams will be devoting to this. That would help to address the concerns of people who think there might be some advantage. If new teams can go through the Beta-test primers and get up in running in less time than it took the Beta-testers themselves (after all, the inital problems ideally would be solved in Beta-test), that will be an advantage to the new teams.

Beta-test teams need to think of the valuable pieces of the puzzle - solutions and instructive steps that will be needed by all teams - and then put together a proposal that will address those puzzle pieces. Think of the features needed in our robots. There are a lot of areas where good solutions will be of value to many teams.

There are going to be areas where proposals might overlap, and it seems to me that if teams did a great job of documenting solutions, we could get away with less overlap.

Ken

[AdamHeard]

It makes perfect sense for them to target the teams they are; They only have 15 units to give out, and they want teams overall to get most out of this program.

Even the most amazing 2nd year team can't hold a candle to what 365 and other similar teams can do to benefit the community if they were to be selected as part of the beta program. If they removed the stipulations I think the 15 units would go to the same teams anyway.

[Kims Robot]

Silly question... where did the number of 15 units come from? Best I can tell Cory was just throwing a number out there, as I dont see it officially anywhere... and before people get too bent up about it, I was wondering if I missed it somewhere...

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Silly question... where did the number of 15 units come from? Best I can tell Cory was just throwing a number out there, as I dont see it officially anywhere... and before people get too bent up about it, I was wondering if I missed it somewhere...

I heard somewhere it's 15.

[tennispro9911]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

As for the arguments about giving veteran teams a huge advantage let me put it bluntly. The teams in question constantly have that advantage over everyone else. While it may not be as obvious as this situation when it comes down to it those teams have the experience, the resources, the people, and ultimately the right combination that can only come from years of hard work. If you honestly think that getting your controller a few months early will magically boost your performance to that of 1114, 330, 245, and others you are sadly mistaken. If you are a good team then the shared experiences of the other veterans will make you stronger, and if you are struggling rookie team don't worry other people will have your back.

Exactly. There is a reason that 1114 has won 5 regionals and the championship in the last 2 years and it isn't luck. Teams do not have the same resources, and teams are not on a level playing field. This will help rookies and newer teams as much if not more than the teams that are consistantly great.

[marccenter]

Would it be possible for teams to combine resources in a local geographical region to beta-test the FRC 2009 controller? What would the mechanism be for organizing this? I for one would be willing to assist a team of folks willing to tackle the FRC 2009 in the Detroit area, but may not able to commit to implementing a full blown solution as proposed without additional resources.
Thoughts?

[Shadow503]

People should remember that this is a BETA test.

"Betaware is a nickname for software which has passed the alpha testing stage of development and has been released to a limited amount of users for software testing before its official release. Beta testing allows the software to undergo usability testing with users who provide feedback, so that any malfunctions these users find in the software can be reported to the developers and fixed."

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_test#Beta]

The intention of this is so that NI and WPI can work out any bugs before the season. Everyone in FIRST benefits from a functional, stable control system. Rookie teams may have a hard time setting up and using the controller. NI and WPI need teams that will be able to delve into the low levels of this controller's capabilities.

And as mentioned before, FIRST is doing an excellent job of ensuring that teams that don't beta test the controller will still get a fair chance. And I don't foresee these 4 hour seminars being dry lectures. I know I would rather help a rookie programmer by giving them hands on experience than by babbling on about setting up I/O functions for 4 hours.