pic: IRI Prank #1

[JaneYoung]

Just to add a thought to the discussion of taking another team's robot or doing things to it like wrapping it in saran wrap.

Many teams have valuable sponsors that they depend on for monies, support, partnership. If something were to happen to a robot because of a prank, how could that be explained to the sponsor and who would do the explaining?

The discussions regarding sponsor support, outreach, spreading the word of FIRST and impacting communities locally and globally are real. Reputation is something all FIRST teams work to establish inside and outside the FIRST community. It doesn't take much to weaken a reputation that has been built over time.

This is another perspective to look at when making choices and decisions regarding how you conduct yourself as an individual and as a team.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

It's all good Arefin.
I'll get on writing up a release form that teams that get pranked can sign next year so the folks who like to lawyer situations will all be happy before we have any fun again at the expense of another team.


Obviously I'm being sarcastic here, & laying it on thick.
Imagine if any candid camera, or situational television show ever aired on tv with humor in mind had the people getting pranked sign a waiver BEFORE they got pranked?? Or what if you were told before hand you were going to be given a surprise party? Takes some of the fun out of it now doesn't it?

Seriously folks. There is a time & a place & a way to go about pranking someone or a team in the FIRST community, or even outside of it.

Yes, I'll agree things have the potential of getting damaged if a prank is approached the wrong way (as I've had the misfortune to experience first hand actually - but I'm no more of an opponent of pranking after that, just more of a propponent of pranking in a non-destructive way), but sometimes people just need to lighten up & have some fun (in a safe way).
FIRST teaches us to be safe. It's in the core values.
It also teaches us to have fun with all we do, & be innovative, & also creative.
With that in mind, if a person decides to pull a prank, you hope that they will approach it in a safe way & they will always, in my mind, be fully responsible for anything that went wrong, which Im sure in ALL these pranks we are talking about the prankster(s) would agree.

I'll again preface this with the comment that I like practical jokes and have been known to play a prank or two in my time. However, I get agitated when thinking about pranks involving our robots. I find your attitude toward this issue EXTREMELY irresponsible.

If an accident happens, and you damage our robot... how exactly would you be responsible? Would you pay for it? How would we determine cost for such a thing?

Why should I trust that you won't do something stupid which results in a bad situation? How can you be sure there won't be some horrible accident?

If you break something, should I just lighten up? Do you expect me to be happy that you derived pleasure at my team's expense?

It is all about risk. If everything goes fine, great... we laugh at ourselves and everything is cool. If something goes wrong, then what? Why is it worth the risk? Why should YOU get to decide whether it is worth the risk or not.

Why would I ever sign your hypothetical waiver to allow you to mess with me or my team or my robot?

Let me be very clear:
Stay the heck away from 148. I don't trust your judgment.

I wonder if there are other teams who don't trust your judgment. I wonder if you've ever given that any thought.
Then again you ARE a professional pranker, right?

-John

PS - Greg Ross once said "Playing a practical joke means doing something mean and calling it funny."

[Dmentor]

On the subject of pranks…

Good pranks are clever, inventive, humorous and inspiring in a sense; but they are also a little sadistic and very dependent on the participant’s and observer’s perspectives. I think good pranks can spark our imaginations but they also evoke strong emotional responses in the target of the prank (be it fear, embarrassment, anger). Bad pranks (and jokes) damage relationships, reputations and is the source of numerous lawsuits in the workplace. Pranks and jokes typically exist in that murky gray region between acceptable and unacceptable behavior. It is hard to know when you’ve gone over the boundary since you are typically playing very close to it. I tend to think there is an associated “adrenalin rush” with behaving within this boundary of acceptable behavior which makes it appealing to the prankster.

While I admire a good prank, I am often more intrigued by how the prank’s target behaves. Some get angry and/or threaten revenge; others show great generosity of spirit by playing along even though their internal emotions may be roiled. Those folks that fall into that last category are the ones I really admire.

[AndyB]

Bad Prank: Saran Wrapping 1114.
Good Prank: Karthik Matress Taco.


Just sayin.

[Pavan Dave]

Wow.

The way I'm looking at it right now is that Arefin's prank was not theft. The other one, by the sound of it, was. Can you add getting police officers to patrol the event to your list of things to do for IRI next year? Maybe we will need some snipers on the roofs too to make sure everyone is always in order. WAIT maybe thats taking it too far? We're all involved with robotics, maybe we should just make a meter to measure how a team's sense of humor is?
...
I understand some of the outrage about this pranking controversy but really everybody is over reacting unless some damage was caused. If Karthik and 1114 can post on here and say what happened to their robot and what damaged what maybe people will calm down without a magic "chill pill" and shrug or laugh this off.


Pavan.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Pavan Dave

If Karthik and 1114 can post on here and say what happened to their robot and what damaged what maybe people will calm down without a magic "chill pill" and shrug or laugh this off.

What's funny to one person is just an annoying story about a chicken in traffic to another...

Here's the deal on the pranks. On Thursday, Arefin and crew, along with some 1114 students/mentors decided to hide our robot. When I first heard about this prank, I was pretty annoyed. But after learning the details, and knowing that our students and lead teacher helped transport the robot, I was okay with it. My primary concern was the safety of the robot, and knowing that the proper precautions were taken made eased my concerns. Do I think it was an ill-advised stunt? Yes. Am I angry/annoyed about it in the slightest? Not at all. (Arefin, no need to keep apologizing, we're cool with it.) The other thing about this prank, was that Arefin has been friends with 1114 for a while. It's not like some stranger came and stole our robot.

The second prank on Saturday was a different story. I don't want to go into all the details, since the perpetrator has yet to speak to us about it, but basically someone who our team was not familiar with decided to saran wrap our robot before the elimination rounds. We were not happy with this prank at all, for a couple of reasons. It was performed by someone not associated with our team in the slightest. When I pull pranks, I pull them on my friends, not complete strangers. For example, if I were to saran wrap Paul Copioli while he was sleeping, it'd be funny, we'd both laugh, the world would go on. If I were to saran wrap a 6'2", 200 lb stranger in his sleep, he'd probably punch me in the face and break about 83 bones. This would be deserved.

The second reason this prank was a bad idea, is because the prankster had no idea what damage could have been done, to the robot or himself. Every FRC robot is delicate in it's own way. For example, say our ram was loaded? The prankster could have easily released it thereby sending our ram flying into their face. This would be what I call a "less than good situation".

I understand some of the outrage about this pranking controversy but really everybody is over reacting unless some damage was caused.

Pavan, I have to disagree. The "no harm, no foul" caveat doesn't apply here. It's akin to saying that speeding is fine as long as you don't hit someone. There's a reason we have laws against speeding, to prevent damage from occurring. We're fortunate that our robot took no damage during the prank, and we're even more fortunate that no one was hurt by our robot.

Anyways, the lead mentor for team of the student who performed this prank called me on Sunday and apologized profusely. We're more than over the situation (although a few of us were pretty annoyed in the moment), and are pretty surprised that this became an issue here on CD. Hopefully we can all turn this situation into a positive lesson about "good ideas" and "bad ideas". Or to put it more succinctly "think before you act".

Originally Posted by AndyB

Good Prank: Karthik Matress Taco.

Now here's something I totally disagree with.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Pavan Dave

Wow.

The way I'm looking at it right now is that Arefin's prank was not theft. The other one, by the sound of it, was. Can you add getting police officers to patrol the event to your list of things to do for IRI next year? Maybe we will need some snipers on the roofs too to make sure everyone is always in order. WAIT maybe thats taking it too far? We're all involved with robotics, maybe we should just make a meter to measure how a team's sense of humor is?
...
I understand some of the outrage about this pranking controversy but really everybody is over reacting unless some damage was caused. If Karthik and 1114 can post on here and say what happened to their robot and what damaged what maybe people will calm down without a magic "chill pill" and shrug or laugh this off.


Pavan.

I've got to disagree. Taking someone else's robot out of their pit, and then doing anything at all to it is out of line.

1114's radio cable came out in SF 1-1. Their arm pot was screwy all afternoon in the elims. Who's to say that it wasn't because random people were messing around with their robot?

It's like they teach you in kindergarten (or maybe even preschool. It was a long time ago ) keep your hands to yourself. Even if they didn't cause damage, that doesn't negate the fact they were messing with another team's robot.

If this happened to my team, and my kids "arranged" for such a prank to take place, I can tell you I would not be happy at all. Both the responsible parties, and my students would have a lot of explaining to do.

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by Cory

I've got to disagree. Taking someone else's robot out of their pit, and then doing anything at all to it is out of line.

1114's radio cable came out in SF 1-1. Their arm pot was screwy all afternoon in the elims. Who's to say that it wasn't because random people were messing around with their robot?

It's like they teach you in kindergarten (or maybe even preschool. It was a long time ago ) keep your hands to yourself. Even if they didn't cause damage, that doesn't negate the fact they were messing with another team's robot.

If this happened to my team, and my kids "arranged" for such a prank to take place, I can tell you I would not be happy at all. Both the responsible parties, and my students would have a lot of explaining to do.

Just to clarify for Karthik, Cory, and the rest of you, I am only defending the prank by Arefin and the professionals as they had a certain degree of consent. The other prank was completely out of line and does deserve the proper response.

The thing is that the 'professionals' had permission from some members of 1114. NOT only students but apparently a teacher was in on it too. When a student's voice of reason fails, it is up to the adult to make the proper decisions and make a stand when they are the head of a group, organization, etc.

Pavan

[Andrew Schreiber]

A thought on the first prank. (the second was out of line end of story) Depending on who owns the robot this could of been a major problem. If a group (other than 1114) were to have ownership of the robot then this could turn into a case of theft. Realize, these are expensive pieces of equipment. Some companies put thousands of dollars towards their teams, most of this with the thought of being rewarded w/ positive PR and some nice advertising. If a prank were to inadvertently damage the robot or the robot came up missing (say a company exec wanted a photo op) I imagine the company would be pretty angry. If the robot is not performing at it's peak the company is not getting all of what it paid for. This could lose sponsorships for teams. I say this as a caution only.

Ok, pretty bleak and negative. The sad part, I like practical jokes. But NOT on competition robots. Mike, this was pretty funny, and since it was not on a competing robot I think it was acceptable. That being said, if it competes and it doesnt belong to you or your team, keep your hands off it. Treat it like anything else that belongs to others. For example, if one of my friends stole my computer and hid it from me the night before I had a paper due said friends may be going to class with a black eye or two the next day.

Prank with caution and respect.

[Schnabel]

Ok, so here is the deal, STOP TALKING ABOUT 1114 FROM THIS POINT ON!!! I have come on here by request to clear this up as it was ME who wrapped both the cone and the robot. I mean for crying out loud if I would have known it would have created this much controversy, I wouldn't have done it. I had bought the wrap to continue a new tradition started last year think it would be cool if the team pranked choose a target for the next years prank and continue on a tradition. I did not know who it was going to be, but someone who I will not mention the name suggested 1114. So durring aliance selections we went to the pits and their robot just happened to be sitting on the cart in the pit room. I did not move their robot ever, I just happened to be lucky that it wasn't in their pit. I with the help of others then began to wrap it, but we were very careful to wrap it loosley and with as little bit of touching it as possible. Now the very day after I talked to both 1114 and the iri planning committee, so both know. Yes I could have made a better choice, but for crying out loud people, it was just a joke. Also mike I did enjoy helping you with this.
So, from this point on, this thread is about the co e and nothing about 1114, and if you are having diffulty with this, you can pm me instead of posting for the person you are bashing for doing this is in fact me, so from now on say anything to my face (or as close to my face as pming can get).

[Bendavnel]

Originally Posted by Kyle Love

If you ask me, the prank done on Thursday night could have broken more things then the whole saran wrap. But thats just me. Regardless, both weren't funny IMHO. The whole barrel thing though, everyone was annoyed by it so that's cool, since ya know, it wasn't a REAL robot.

what are you talking about of course albert is a real robot. All i needed was a First controller (to expensive for a homemade bot) and a cople of sticks and i could have ran him in the comp. its faster than our robot (which is fast enough). besides what makes any of the lap BOTS in this years competition any different from the cone???? Just cause we got a little entertainment out of driving it around dosent mean u should hate on it. for every person who found it annoying i bet i could find at least 3 people who loved it. And be honest if you had built a cool little robot like that wouldnt you wanna show it off too?

Ben

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by Bendavnel

what are you talking about of course albert is a real robot. All i needed was a First controller (to expensive for a homemade bot) and a cople of sticks and i could have ran him in the comp. its faster than our robot (which is fast enough). besides what makes any of the lap BOTS in this years competition any different from the cone???? Just cause we got a little entertainment out of driving it around dosent mean u should hate on it. for every person who found it annoying i bet i could find at least 3 people who loved it. And be honest if you had built a cool little robot like that wouldnt you wanna show it off too?

Ben

Getting in peoples way when they are trying to walk and "juking" them out to stay in their way isn't cool and if I did have something like that, I certainly would know a time and place for it. I saw random people get attacked by the thing and I do mean attacked.

This is like what Karthik was saying, its okay if you do it to PEOPLE YOU KNOW, but don't mess with others especially those who don't know you.

I got hit by the thing a few times, and when I was trying to work on the robot it wouldn't get away from me. Please play the GP card if you want- I hate that term anyways - but I was about to push the off button regardless of Chris' "keep your hands off other robots" rule due to it being a distraction and getting in the way of my IRI experience.

Also for every one person that you messed with I bet there were two others or three others who saw it and didn't appreciate it on the victim's behalf.

If Chris does decide to make the no touching robots rule, I think he should make a rule regarding getting permits for show robots and robots touching/disrupting people.

EDIT: Somebody said that they are not responsible for the actions of the others on their but but in reality they are just as guilty for not stopping their own teammates so please do not pull that "its not my fault, I didn't do it" card.


Pavan Dave


.

[RyanN]

Originally Posted by Bendavnel

what are you talking about of course albert is a real robot. All i needed was a First controller (to expensive for a homemade bot) and a cople of sticks and i could have ran him in the comp. its faster than our robot (which is fast enough). besides what makes any of the lap BOTS in this years competition any different from the cone???? Just cause we got a little entertainment out of driving it around dosent mean u should hate on it. for every person who found it annoying i bet i could find at least 3 people who loved it. And be honest if you had built a cool little robot like that wouldnt you wanna show it off too?

Ben

Much like Pavan said, there is a time and a place. I was never personally attacked by it, but I did not appreciate it annoying people. I believe some of your own teammates were annoyed with it from what I saw. I also saw it go out of control near the cafeteria because the VEX controller has the same crystal as the VEX field nearby and almost knocked down the table. An appropriate place to use your robot would have been away from all the pits and away from high traffic walkways. Although it's a safety cone, it was causing many safety issues at IRI. It was funny at first, but after about two hours I was annoyed. I know the feeling that something you made is great and funny, but you need to keep in mind you are only one person. Other may follow pursuit in thinking it's funny, but I saw many people that did not enjoy its existence. I also saw the refs signaling for you to get it out of their way. At that point I would have understood that I have gone far enough with it and shut it off.

I'm sorry if I sound ungracious, but some things need to be told plain and simple.

[Mike Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Pavan Dave

If Chris does decide to make the no touching robots rule, I think he should make a rule regarding getting permits for show robots and robots touching/disrupting people.

I believe the rule would be meant for competition robots, as no one (at least that I've heard from) saw touching Alfred as an issue. Yes 1024 did work hard on him, but the purpose of such a robot is to entertain and therefore most likely interact. Besides it ran into me first! haha

On the topic of driving him on a road...VIDEO PLEASE, but that does seem slightly dangerous, and I'm sure there's probably some crazy law against it. Now I want one.

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by ICanCountTo19

I believe the rule would be meant for competition robots, as no one (at least that I've heard from) saw touching Alfred as an issue. Yes 1024 did work hard on him, but the purpose of such a robot is to entertain and therefore most likely interact. Besides it ran into me first! haha

On the topic of driving him on a road...VIDEO PLEASE, but that does seem slightly dangerous, and I'm sure there's probably some crazy law against it. Now I want one.

I disagree completely. If I can't touch another competition robot then why can a non competition robot touch or harass me? I don't care if many people found it enjoying, the fact of the matter is MANY not just me and Ryan and a few random people were ANNOYED and NOT amused. Many people I spoke to, however fun they thought it was agreed that there is a time and place and said it was only fun for a few moments not for minutes of in your face action. I think they should make the rules to make NO exceptions for robots harassing humans without permission.


Pavan Dave


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