Go to Post the everyone is a winner philosophy cheapens winning. - Andrew Schreiber [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Off-Season Events
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-07-2008, 15:34
Andy Baker's Avatar Woodie Flowers Award
Andy Baker Andy Baker is offline
President, AndyMark, Inc.
FRC #3940 (CyberTooth)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 3,423
Andy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Andy Baker
High quality wooden FRC field design

All,

At IRI, we had a full-scale practice field made from standard cuts of wood (2x4's, plywood, etc.). This design was made by Mark Koors, and is easy to assemble and disassemble. It goes together with no tools, once all of the component assemblies are fabricated. Also, all of the pieces for this field can be transported in a 16' trailer (maybe even a 12'... not sure).

To create the border for this field, it costs about $1,000 in lumber and fasteners. (overpass hardware and electronics not included)

Here is a link to a pdf
, showing how to make this wooden field border.

For people who want to host a demo or off-season event, this may be a good alternative to the high price of shipping an actual FIRST field to their location. This thing does take a while to build, but it may be worth it.

Thanks to Mark Koors for creating this resource.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-07-2008, 15:37
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,824
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

This was a very nice field. I was impressed with how high quality, yet still very simple it was.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-07-2008, 15:47
AndyB's Avatar
AndyB AndyB is offline
Ambitiously Disappointing
AKA: Andy Burchardt
FRC #0171 (Cheese Curd Herd)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Platteville, WI
Posts: 1,185
AndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

While helping set up the field, Alan Anderson told me that the field could be completely set up in as little as 2 days.
__________________
Team 171 :: Cheese Curd Herd :: College Mentor, 2008-Present
Team 269 :: CooneyTech Robotics :: Student, 2005-2007
Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-07-2008, 16:22
Andy Baker's Avatar Woodie Flowers Award
Andy Baker Andy Baker is offline
President, AndyMark, Inc.
FRC #3940 (CyberTooth)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 3,423
Andy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Andy Baker
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyB View Post
While helping set up the field, Alan Anderson told me that the field could be completely set up in as little as 2 days.
Once everything is fabricated and fastened together for the first time, the field takes about 1 hour to assemble, and then 1 hour to disassemble. You would need a crew of about 6-8 people to do this assembly/disassembly.

Andy
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-07-2008, 19:46
Alan Anderson's Avatar
Alan Anderson Alan Anderson is offline
Software Architect
FRC #0045 (TechnoKats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 9,113
Alan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond reputeAlan Anderson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyB View Post
While helping set up the field, Alan Anderson told me that the field could be completely set up in as little as 2 days.
I meant that I thought it could be completely built in two days, starting from the raw lumber. As Andy said, it only takes an hour or so to set it up or take it apart once all the components are built.
Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-07-2008, 19:59
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,526
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

I was really impressed with the design, and especially liked the latching system for the openings.

330 used this field for their preship scrimmage, and I was told they were very pleased with it.
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-07-2008, 20:12
AndyB's Avatar
AndyB AndyB is offline
Ambitiously Disappointing
AKA: Andy Burchardt
FRC #0171 (Cheese Curd Herd)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Platteville, WI
Posts: 1,185
AndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond reputeAndyB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Anderson View Post
I meant that I thought it could be completely built in two days, starting from the raw lumber. As Andy said, it only takes an hour or so to set it up or take it apart once all the components are built.
That's what I originally meant. Sorry, my wording was wrong.
__________________
Team 171 :: Cheese Curd Herd :: College Mentor, 2008-Present
Team 269 :: CooneyTech Robotics :: Student, 2005-2007
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2008, 12:14
Andrew Schuetze's Avatar
Andrew Schuetze Andrew Schuetze is offline
499 Founder / Alamo FTC & FLL AP
no team
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 689
Andrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond repute
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

So I just received the plans for the construction of this field yesterday. As opposed to shipping a loaner field for $5,000 the $1,000 for ownership sounds like a no-brainer. There is the fun of storing the field when not in use but that is another story.

How does this rectangular field play with over-drive and balls in the corners? I've got the lane divider and over-passes from the local kick-off which is the black-pipe covered in PVC.

Any thoughts on how to keep the trackballs in play along the sides especially with catapult robots tossing them around.

I ask because I am putting together a demonstration scrimmage for mid-October here in San Antonio on the floor of the AT&T center. It is a three hour education rally with an astronaut and the usual local pop culture celebs. I want to get high tech students creating some of the excitement with robots. We'll probably only get 20 - 30 minutes on the schedule.
__________________
APS

Founder FRC 499
Parent alumni FRC 2745 & 4219
Co-Coach FTC 4549 & 6407
Alamo FTC Affiliate Partner
Alamo FLL Affiliate Partner
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2008, 12:30
IndySam's Avatar
IndySam IndySam is offline
Registered User
FRC #0829 (Digital Goats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Indy
Posts: 3,362
IndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond reputeIndySam has a reputation beyond repute
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schuetze View Post
So I just received the plans for the construction of this field yesterday. As opposed to shipping a loaner field for $5,000 the $1,000 for ownership sounds like a no-brainer. There is the fun of storing the field when not in use but that is another story.

How does this rectangular field play with over-drive and balls in the corners? I've got the lane divider and over-passes from the local kick-off which is the black-pipe covered in PVC.

Any thoughts on how to keep the trackballs in play along the sides especially with catapult robots tossing them around.

I ask because I am putting together a demonstration scrimmage for mid-October here in San Antonio on the floor of the AT&T center. It is a three hour education rally with an astronaut and the usual local pop culture celebs. I want to get high tech students creating some of the excitement with robots. We'll probably only get 20 - 30 minutes on the schedule.
Mark's plans include how to make the angled robo coach stations.
__________________
"Champions are champions not because they do anything extraordinary but because they do the ordinary things better than anyone else." —Chuck Knoll


2015 Indianapolis District Winner
2014 Boilermaker Regional Industrial Design Award
2013 Smoky Mountain Regional Industrial Design Award
2012 Boilermaker Engineering Excellence Award
2010 Boilermaker Rockwell Innovation in Control Award.
2009 Buckeye J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2009 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2008 Boilermaker J&J Gracious Professionalism Award
2007 St Louis Regional Winners
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-07-2008, 22:15
Andrew Schuetze's Avatar
Andrew Schuetze Andrew Schuetze is offline
499 Founder / Alamo FTC & FLL AP
no team
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 689
Andrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schuetze has a reputation beyond repute
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Okay,
I see on page two the 45 deg corners.

Then it is a done deal. Now to just purchase the 140 plus 2x4s
__________________
APS

Founder FRC 499
Parent alumni FRC 2745 & 4219
Co-Coach FTC 4549 & 6407
Alamo FTC Affiliate Partner
Alamo FLL Affiliate Partner
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-07-2008, 23:25
ChrisH's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
ChrisH ChrisH is offline
Generally Useless
FRC #0330 (Beach 'Bots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 1,230
ChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond reputeChrisH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

SCRRF used this design for the field for our Pre-Ship Scrimmage. (Hosted by the BeachBots) Since it was set up in their facility, the BeachBots continued to use it for practice throughout the season. In general, it held up really well and we are very happy with it.

There are four minor changes I would make to the plans, based on our experience:

1) The spacers that set the width of the blocks that hold the field sides together are given an exact dimension. The problem is the width of 2x4s varies somewhat. Ours came out a little short because our lumber was a little wide. So just set that dimension to exactly twice the width of your 2x4s.

2) Our field electronics people requested that we add holes to the blocks so they could run wires through. We will be adding these in a few weeks.

3) The screws used to hold the blocks together weren't quite enough, especially on the blocks at the playerstations. The screws tend to pull out after a while. We are planning to replace them with nuts, washers and threaded rod.

4) We used different hinges on the entrance and exit ramps. The one suggested looked too flimsy in our opinion. Or more properly the screws to hold it in looked wimpy. So we used 3" door hinges instead. The suggested hinges would probably have worked for limited use, but we were building for the future.

Item 1 was apparent as soon as we tried to put the field together. Item 2 is a convienience thing and depending on the details of the new control system, it might be moot after this year's round of off-seasons. Item 3 took a while to show up. You would probably get through a one day event Ok as things are.

We also had trouble getting the velcro to stick to the bottom of the field pieces, but our wet, lowest bidder, lumber probably played a role there.

One thing we did that helped a lot on the side rails was building an assembly fixture. It took an extra hour or so, but it made the assembly of the side rails quite easy and ensured that the rails were lined up with each other. Once we had the wood cut (which was done using a chopsaw and a stop block for consistent lengths) we could assemble one in fifteen minutes or less.

In our case it took three engineers, two of whom have major home remodels under their belts, a week of evenings to assemble the first time. Now with 6 or 8 people and a couple of furniture dollys we can have it up in 30 minutes or less, assuming the carpet is down.

If this field design encourages more FIRST teams to start holding their own off-seasons, it could be more revolutionary than AndyMark's Super Shifters or Rumble at the Rock.

I cannot say enough good things about it.

ChrisH
__________________
Christopher H Husmann, PE

"Who is John Galt?"
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-07-2008, 23:56
KarenH's Avatar
KarenH KarenH is offline
Mrs. ChrisH
FRC #0330 (Beach 'Bots)
Team Role: Parent
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hermosa Beach, CA
Posts: 415
KarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond reputeKarenH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisH View Post
We also had trouble getting the velcro to stick to the bottom of the field pieces, but our wet, lowest bidder, lumber probably played a role there.
...
In our case it took three engineers, two of whom have major home remodels under their belts, a week of evenings to assemble the first time. Now with 6 or 8 people and a couple of furniture dollys we can have it up in 30 minutes or less, assuming the carpet is down.

ChrisH
Getting Velcro to stick to unfinished wood is a challenge even with kiln-dried lumber. When we built the field, we didn't have much time (last week of build season!). But if we had more time (and dry lumber), it would have been nice to seal the wood, at least on the surfaces needing Velcro, and in the player stations.

Finishing the wood has at least two advantages for this application:

1) Increase the likelihood of the Velcro adhering

2) Reduce splinters and similar hazards in the player stations (I don't know of anyone who actually experienced problems along this line)

Attention to the type of adhesive and how it's applied would also help. Of course, this would require a little time and effort (and probably a bit of increase in the cost) to research and obtain the optimum type of Velcro and adhesive. I found this chart which explains the ins and outs of Velcro adhesives. Presumably this company is able to supply everything listed in the chart as well. (Note: I'm not recommending this or any other supplier, merely offering the information as an example.)

Or just skip the Velcro and use a large rubber mallet for whacking the field borders back in place after the rowdier matches.
__________________
Karen Husmann
Ex Robo-widow
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-07-2008, 09:21
Andy Baker's Avatar Woodie Flowers Award
Andy Baker Andy Baker is offline
President, AndyMark, Inc.
FRC #3940 (CyberTooth)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 3,423
Andy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond reputeAndy Baker has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Andy Baker
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenH View Post
Getting Velcro to stick to unfinished wood is a challenge even with kiln-dried lumber. When we built the field, we didn't have much time (last week of build season!). But if we had more time (and dry lumber), it would have been nice to seal the wood, at least on the surfaces needing Velcro, and in the player stations.
We had the same Velcro non-stick problem. What worked for us was just to use a staple gun to fasten the Velcro to the wood.

Andy B.
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-07-2008, 14:59
rfolea's Avatar
rfolea rfolea is online now
Registered User
AKA: Rick Folea
no team (Forsyth Alliance)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: US
Posts: 212
rfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant futurerfolea has a brilliant future
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Could someone post a few pictures of the field in action?

I know we can see videos on BlueAlliance, but was wondering is anyone had close up pictures of the field itself ...
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-07-2008, 15:03
Elgin Clock's Avatar
Elgin Clock Elgin Clock is offline
updates this status less than FB!
AKA: the one who "will break into your thoughts..."
FRC #0237 (Black Magic)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: H20-Town, Connecticut
Posts: 7,773
Elgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond reputeElgin Clock has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Elgin Clock
Re: High quality wooden FRC field design

Any possibility of sharing the actual CAD files for the field if they exist Andy?
__________________
The influence of many leads to the individuality of one. - E.C.C. (That's me!!)

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I found the HIGH quality FIRST kickoff! pizza General Forum 1 10-02-2006 20:08
FRC hardware design Gdeaver Control System 6 22-08-2005 17:49
**FIRST EMAIL**/2005 FRC Game Design Communication to FRC Teams Goobergunch FIRST E-Mail Blast Archive 1 06-01-2005 09:29
[FVG]: High-level design Ryan M. FIRST-related Organizations 9 24-07-2004 06:07


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:02.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi