New FIRST competition structure in Michigan

[Ericgehrken]

This seems like a huge step forward for FIRST, maybe other states will adapt this model in the future.

[Travis Hoffman]

Not spending much time thinking about it, I think this could be a boon for the quality of the regionals just outside of Michigan, as the lockout of non-Michigan teams from competing at the generally high-demand Michigan events might make those teams seek out the Buckeyes and Boilermakers and Pittsburghs (and Waterloos? and....) of the world.

Not to mention the Michigan teams are free to escape from their own state and still participate in these non-Michigan events themselves.

So....if FIRST chooses to have an open enrollment phase for Championship registration again this year, are Michigan teams eligible to sign up then, or must they only qualify via their new district guidelines or via earning their way in at a non-Michigan regional?

[Madison]

A thought -- are FIRST and NI prepared to troubleshoot a brand new control system at these additional events? It seems a weird time to implement two radical shifts in how the program operates in a single season.

Another thought -- knowing that practically nothing of a team's registration fee goes toward supporting a regional event, I'm having trouble reconciling how teams in Michigan can justifiably play more for their single registration fee. The FAQ seems to deftly ignore how much the registration fee for Michigan teams will be; I'm curious to learn if it'll be higher or lower than elsewhere and how the time spent playing matches for that fee compares with teams from other states paying a similar amount.

[IndySam]

Not to be a stick in the mud but the Michigan teams getting two events for the price of one doesn't sit well with me. Also we don't know what the fee for the State Championship will be, I bet it won't be $4K.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

So....if FIRST chooses to have an open enrollment phase for Championship registration again this year, are Michigan teams eligible to sign up then, or must they only qualify via their new district guidelines or via earning their way in at a non-Michigan regional?

Your turn to be sent to the FAQ, Travis. The answer is yes, but they can also qualify outside of Michigan (normal methods, barring RCA) or at the Michigan championship. FAQ point 11.

[Alan Anderson]

I think something like this is a necessary step in the growth of FRC in particular. I'm not sure if it's the best way to do things, but I am sure I couldn't have suggested anything better. It does make me wonder how the "district" scheme might be expanded to other regions, especially those with sparsely-spread teams.

I'm glad we didn't already make firm plans to attend a Michigan regional next year. I'm also very happy not to be a Michigan team right now, and I offer any Karma I can spare to those teams who need it.

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Another thought -- knowing that practically nothing of a team's registration fee goes toward supporting a regional event, I'm having trouble reconciling how teams in Michigan can justifiably play more for their single registration fee.

I suspect the district events won't have quite the level of audiovisual production staffing that we've come to expect from regional competitions.

[IKE]

I think the registration fee is the same, the big difference is that Michigan teams get 2 district events as opposed to 1 regional event. By the sounds of it the district events will be similar, but more economical versions of a regional event (more like Kettering Rookie event or off season events). These district events are not garuanteed trips to the Championship, but only the State Championship.

Overall it looks like a good trade-off to me, but I am glad that they are doing a trial run.

[dtk]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Not to be a stick in the mud but the Michigan teams getting two events for the price of one doesn't sit well with me. Also we don't know what the fee for the State Championship will be, I bet it won't be $4K.

I believe the State Championship fee will in fact be $4,000.

While for the 2009 season there is no doubt Michigan teams are being given more plays for less it is simply the first step in effecting that change for the entire country. So yes if things turn out well then there is, perhaps, an additional cost benefit to being a Michigan teams in the short term. But I think it's important to judge this change based on whether or not it is beneficial for FIRST across the country because if it is then everyone will have the same advantages in time. I'm not sure if the answer is yes, but that's why it's a pilot program.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by EricH

Your turn to be sent to the FAQ, Travis. The answer is yes, but they can also qualify outside of Michigan (normal methods, barring RCA) or at the Michigan championship. FAQ point 11.

Actually, I did read it, but I glanced past the blurb about the pre-registration. I must not have been as captivated by the enagaging writing style as others....

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by dtk

I believe the State Championship fee will in fact be $4,000.

Do you have inside information for that? The FAQ say's the teams will have to pay an "additional fee" for the State event while also stating in the same section that for out of state regionals they will pay "regular FRC registration fees." That seems like a pretty important distinction.

Look I'm not entirely against the pilot program. FIRST needs to change something for FRC to continue growing. I just want to know how much of a potential advantage MI teams may get.

[dtk]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Do you have inside information for that? The FAQ say's the teams will have to pay an "additional fee" for the State event while also stating in the same section that for out of state regionals they will pay "regular FRC registration fees." That seems like a pretty important distinction.

Yes I can confirm the cost is the same as any other additional event ($4,000).

[ParkerF]

I just going to poke into this thread for one moment. I'm curious to see what people have to think about this, and want to invoke a conversation about it.

I personally love the air of competitions. A huge set of bleachers/arena seating full of chanting and cheering team members while robots go at it under the field lighting is what defines a great event for me. Being a driver, I don't get to be up in the stands with my team, however I do get to stare into the masses while teams with students you've never met before cheer for your alliance to take the victory. That's definitely one thing that makes FIRST so different from any other organization in my opinion. With Michigan going from three regional events this year to an astounding eight will either stretch the wallet of FIRST, or they'll have to slightly dumb down the quality of the event. Now I've been in FIRST for only a year now, but I don't want to see other students miss what I've gotten to experience.

I don't have a clue how many teams the state of Michigan has, or even how many rookie teams it will have this coming season, but something tells me that each of those district events won't have the average fifty or so teams that current regionals have. Having that many teams adds depth, along with other things. I just wouldn't enjoy an event with fewer teams as I would one with fifty or more. I could bring up other points, but I'm going to stop and see what you all can take out of what I've written so far.

I just want to see what you all feel about the possible fact that these events may be less of an experience than that of current events. Again, I'm simply looking at it through the eyes of someone who doesn't want other students to miss out on what I've had. Is a drop in quality really worth bringing in more teams?

[Disclaimer: I've probably over-written this, thus making my point hard to understand. If you don't wish to try and figure out what I mean, by all means ignore this. ]

[JaneYoung]

One way to look at this is that we have to start somewhere. It appears that Michigan has established/is establishing an infrastructure that can provide this opportunity as one possible solution to the growth/costs/concerns.

Any time there is change, concerns/risks arise and they should be addressed by the volunteer leadership. Hopefully, at the end of the 2009 season, we will all learn of the benefits that come from this 'experiment' and how the teams were impacted.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by francistexas

I personally love the air of competitions.

I went to the Kettering Rookie regional and it was pretty cool. As you guessed it was not the Rock Concert that GLR is, but it did feel more like a high school sporting event.

I think that to keep it affordable they will get rid of some of the spectacle. Also the district events are supposed to be 35-45 teams, so they will be smaller than many regionals.

Hopefully this gets made up for by an outstanding State Championship.

This will definitely be one of the questions we ask our kids at the end of next season.

P.S. I think MI has right around 120 teams. Next year should be about 130-140. 7 districts x 40 teams/event = 280 event slots = everybody gets 2 slots.

[acdcfan259]

Originally Posted by francistexas

I just going to poke into this thread for one moment. I'm curious to see what people have to think about this, and want to invoke a conversation about it.

I personally love the air of competitions. A huge set of bleachers/arena seating full of chanting and cheering team members while robots go at it under the field lighting is what defines a great event for me. Being a driver, I don't get to be up in the stands with my team, however I do get to stare into the masses while teams with students you've never met before cheer for your alliance to take the victory. That's definitely one thing that makes FIRST so different from any other organization in my opinion. With Michigan going from three regional events this year to an astounding eight will either stretch the wallet of FIRST, or they'll have to slightly dumb down the quality of the event. Now I've been in FIRST for only a year now, but I don't want to see other students miss what I've gotten to experience.

I don't have a clue how many teams the state of Michigan has, or even how many rookie teams it will have this coming season, but something tells me that each of those district events won't have the average fifty or so teams that current regionals have. Having that many teams adds depth, along with other things. I just wouldn't enjoy an event with fewer teams as I would one with fifty or more. I could bring up other points, but I'm going to stop and see what you all can take out of what I've written so far.

I just want to see what you all feel about the possible fact that these events may be less of an experience than that of current events. Again, I'm simply looking at it through the eyes of someone who doesn't want other students to miss out on what I've had. Is a drop in quality really worth bringing in more teams?

[Disclaimer: I've probably over-written this, thus making my point hard to understand. If you don't wish to try and figure out what I mean, by all means ignore this. ]

I see what you're talking about. I imagine to hold this many events, they'll have to find some way to cut down costs. Where, we don't know yet. And like you said, the experience will be different. I'm very shaky on the whole idea, but let's see what happens.

Now for my question. If this were adapted for all of FIRST, the way I understand it teams would have to stay in state. Correct me if I'm wrong. One thing that I enjoy about our team is that we travel to a far away regional. Now traveling isn't the only reason I'm here, but it certainly is a big bonus. It's nice to get away from home and to see other places.