New FIRST competition structure in Michigan

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Karibou

Now, my question is, if this expands, will everyone be confined to their own state for regionals? If all states were to adopt this, then nobody would be able to travel out of state for a regional, correct?

I think this is such a good question. Based on the information we have now, I think it would mean that everyone has to compete in thier own state, untill the Championship. Meeting and working with new and different teams from accross the country is always fun and worthwhile and shouldn't only be for those team who qualify for the Championship. If this is the case, I would be very interested to see how the style of play differs from state to state and then how all the styles blend in Atlanta. Overall, I'm think this is a great idea and I'm excited to see how it works out, but this one part I'm not a fan of.

[ChristinaR]

Something that hasn't (I think) been touched upon in this thread yet is the lack of the practice day. Instead, teams will have an 8 hour window to fix/build their robots in the week leading up to the event. This places a lot of trust into the hands of the teams, doesn't it? I'm not saying that teams would abuse the privilege of being able to access their robot prior to the competition, but it's unfortunately not a guarantee. The FAQ says robots will be stored at a local facility, so for the 8-hour window, they can pick it up and must return it on time? It's the only way I currently see that is feasible for monitoring this.

Also, with the lack of a practice day, what about things such as scouting? Of course you still get the first day of competition, but I've always viewed the practice day as an all-important resource to get some valuable scouting done. Rookie teams being tossed into the fray of the competition with possibly no experience in facing opponents at an event may suffer as well. The old adage "Practice, Practice, Practice" comes to mind.

[EricLeifermann]

First question is this mandatory for all Michigan FIRST teams? If it is it should not be.

We are in almost the very most northern tip of the upper peninsula and even if they think it is cheaper to only have to pay for 1 comp to get to play in 2 the cost of busing down 10+ hours to lower Michigan twice is not going to save us any money, and we are a low budget team. In all reality unless they have a district competition in the UP this is not cost effective for any of the teams in the UP.

We go to the Wisconsin regional because its the nearest one and its the cheapest to travel to.

Also this, to me that is, is taking away one of the best things i liked about FIRST, the fact that i can compete and talk to people from around the world. This is just limiting it to teams is Michigan, and that is not as exciting. Yes Michigan has lots of good teams and interesting people but its not even close to talking to someone and competing with people from New Zealand or Israel or Brazil.

[AndyB]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

First question is this mandatory for all Michigan FIRST teams? If it is it should not be.

We are in almost the very most northern tip of the upper peninsula and even if they think it is cheaper to only have to pay for 1 comp to get to play in 2 the cost of busing down 10+ hours to lower Michigan twice is not going to save us any money, and we are a low budget team. In all reality unless they have a district competition in the UP this is not cost effective for any of the teams in the UP.

We go to the Wisconsin regional because its the nearest one and its the cheapest to travel to.

Also this, to me that is, is taking away one of the best things i liked about FIRST, the fact that i can compete and talk to people from around the world. This is just limiting it to teams is Michigan, and that is not as exciting. Yes Michigan has lots of good teams and interesting people but its not even close to talking to someone and competing with people from New Zealand or Israel or Brazil.

I agree. And we enjoy having you guys at Wisconsin every year. That's something that makes regionals better than any state competition. It's awesome seeing a Canadian team coming down to Chicago. It's fun seeing a Michigan team go to Canada.

Another example:

This year at the Minnesota Regional, 44 of the 54 registered teams were above 2000 in number. 30 of them were rookies. The only veteran teams (5+ years in FRC) were 93, 525, 876, and 877. Not one of them is from Minnesota.

These 4 teams (in addition to 1816, the second oldest Minnesota team) held the regional together. They were in the pits helping other teams, they supplied loads of volunteers, they made up over a third of those in attendance. Without these four, I have no doubt that the regional wouldn't have gone as smoothly.

Minnesota will likely see a growth in 2009 equal to, if not larger, than its 2008 growth. How does ONE competition have a chance in hell to operate smoothly with the oldest team at the regional only 3 years old. Now lets figure out how a state like Minnesota could operate 5 or 6 competitions, most of them with no teams over 2 years old.

Don't get me wrong, the 2nd and 3rd year teams in Minnesota are some of the most mature 2nd and 3rd year teams in the country, but regardless, situations like this seem a little ridiculous.

FIRST thrives on veteran teams growing rookie teams into veteran teams. Look at what they are doing for testing the NI control system: just that.

[GaryVoshol]

Michigan is in a great situation to try this as a pilot program. If it works in Michigan it can work in a lot of other areas - IL/IN/MO, CA, New England, NY/NJ/PA, maybe DE/MD/VA, etc. Pick any reasonably sized region with about 100 teams, and although you wouldn't be able to call it a State Championship, you could hold several districts advancing to Regional championships. Right now it would NOT work in a lot of other areas - the Northwest, Plains, most of the Southeast - because there isn't a high enough density of teams. Michigan will provide a little experience for teams from sparser regions of the country - even though there are two districts in the Upper Peninsula there are currently only 3 teams in the UP. (Two of the 16 geographical district, which I presume is to allow for eventual expansion - there will only be 7 district events the first year). Those teams plus a few more from the northern Lower Peninsula will be able to provide some input as to how this would work in an area where one district might be nearby, but the other would involve a bit of travel.

The Kettering Rookie District last year was a "real" event, tempered somewhat by the fact that all the teams were rookies and thus it didn't necessarily have the same amount of spirit and traditions that you might find at established regionals. There was a screen, there was sound and a DJ, an MC and announcer. There was a full referee crew, although about only about half were certified. There was a smallish panel of judges and, as a rookie-only event, an appropriate number of awards. There was a full-spec competition field (although that doesn't guarantee anything, the 3+ hour delay proves that!)

I think the biggest question in this is one that has been voiced, what about teams that like to travel to a distant regional? This year they can still do that, subject to time and money. It will be interesting to see what would happen if more regions adopt the district concept - would teams be able to "share" points earned at a district away from your region?

As I understand it, there are two primary goals to be met - lower cost and managing growth. Michigan has a very ambitious goal of having a FRC program in 50% of high schools - some schools would have joint programs. Even now, with 3 regular regionals, there was very little room for any expansion. Detroit Regional filled up within hours of registration opening. (And at only 33 teams capacity, it serves as the model for the district events. Many HS or community college fieldhouses would be at least as large as Wayne State's.) Lower cost comes about by being able to compete in two district competitions for the same cost as one regional, nearer to home than having to travel to an away regional. Plus the district events will be Friday-Saturday only, so teams that do have to travel won't have as high of lodging expenses and students will miss less school.

To address the lack of a practice day: At Kettering there was a block of practice Friday morning. I believe it was a first-come-first-served line. Given that the goal is to have about 12 rounds of play, the teams will get a lot of driving and will improve over the course of the event. And then they get 12 more games at their next event! Scouting will be different, I'm not sure to say more difficult or not, but there will be less teams overall to scout.

I am very excited to see how this concept will pan out.