Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST

[Martinez]

With a new fall season coming up, I was curious to discuss what people think are the major barriers of entry as to why schools don't get involved with FIRST Robotics. Then possibly brainstorm what we and FIRST can do to lower those barriers. The way I look at it, the more we help those up and coming schools looking to Robotics right now, the more teams are likely to register in the late fall.

In my opinion there are to major hinderences:
1) Communication - basically getting the word out there and keeping people connected
2) Program Costs - $10,000 is a huge startup investment.

What can be done:
1) Better district level institutions - ok, so I just came back from a church district training conference but I realized that FIRST has almost no foundation in terms of supporting regions with teams. We have a huge huge way to go to match existing organizational structures. As I see it, FIRST sets a global agenda that is like clearing fields but its left to only other teams to plant seeds and then individual new schools to tend the crops. I don't know how much people know about Church Planting... but thats a huge burden to place on new people.

2) More Scholarship funding for start up- I thing one of the most successful programs I've ever witness is the NASA grant. Having just a small amount of money to "start the spark" is a huge help. From my experience, a team really can't begin to coalesse and take shape until there is a garenteed amount set aside to pay for the kit, if not the whole robot. It will be interesting to see what happens when I go back to Owego (for the third time) and say hey I'm willing to donate X just to get things going. But lets face it: $10,000 is a huuuuge amount of money and from new people perspectives can be used on alot of other things.

Thoughts?

[R.C.]

True, we were facing the same problem when we started in 2004.

[gburlison]

I think that the time commitment for Mentors is a large barrier. Our team almost shutdown in our second year because we had trouble getting a teacher willing to make the time commitment. Until schools are ready to treat FIRST like they treat sports, many schools will not find teachers willing to mentor.

[Allison]

Another major issue that I would assume faces many teams not just the team i was mentoring in 2006 was something called NASSP National Advisory List of Student Contests and Activities. It was very difficult to encourage an activity like FIRST when the school was unable to allow the team to access to school resources without resistance or allow student to travel without sending them on "parent sponsored" field trips. For a while 1747 was working with FIRST to get on this list but I am not sure what came of it.

[techtiger1]

I think having a willing teacher and good tech program is key. That to me is the top reason why schools don't join FIRST they can't or don't have a teacher that wants to be dedicated to the cause year in and year it. My five years of experience has shown me this not that this is alot. In my community this is what I c going on besides the issues already mentioned:money, other programs,etc.

[bigbeezy]

Our County has been very good with accepting FIRST. We, as well as a number of other teams in the county, have shown what FIRST is all about to our Superintendant of Schools and he has fallen in Love with FIRST. By 2010, I believe, EVERY high school in the county will have its own team. And, I’m not sure about a timeline, EVERY middle and elementary school will have a Lego League Team (most already do).

When school administration doesn’t understand FIRST then lots of barriers get put up. They tend to just see the huge price tag. Also there needs to be a willing teacher or someone who is able to spend countless hours running the team. It’s not like a small sport where they meet for just one little part of the year. It’s a year round commitment. Not to mention some areas just don’t have the companies that are able, especially in these times, to put up $10,000+ a year.

Maybe what Michigan is doing is a step in the right direction. Some smaller low cost competitions where more teams can afford to compete.

[=Martin=Taylor=]

In the 12 mile area around where I live there are 10 high schools and 5 teams.

I don't see why we need anymore teams. If all five of those teams doubled up with another school everyone could participate for less cost...

[gorrilla]

it all depends on were your at i know that all of the 10 teams from puerto rico that competed and the orlando regional worked out of the same building


one of our mentors has got'en the brevard county school system interested in lego league for midle and elementery schools

[artdutra04]

in no particular order...

Faculty - Finding a full-time teacher to coach the team isn't always easy, even when it's a paid position. The time devotion is a major drawback for many new teachers, who may be pursuing Masters or PhD, or being actively engaged in their social life. It's a lot easier to get older teachers involved, as many are already married and received all the degrees they wish to attain.

Resources - A FRC team needs a lot of stuff: lots of space for robots/parts/materials/tools, a lab or shop to build the robot in (preferably one with tools), access to computers for CAD/3D animation/website/etc, keys/security code access to the school for those late nights and early mornings during the build season, a place to drive the robot and assemble [mock-up] playing field components, and preferably a long-term storage space within the school.

Funding - This is a major issue. Whether it is justifying the funding to school districts looking to start teams, or trying to recruit sponsors and hash out a business plan. It's something that is constantly on the minds of nearly all FIRST teams, even the "established" ones.

Attitude - There are a lot of schools who are about only two things: meeting the minimum requirements of No Child Left Behind (and similar state measures) and sports/band. The best strategy here is to convince one administrator or teacher at a time, and slowly start building a coalition to support FIRST. This can take quite a while, and it needs perseverance, but tackling this attitude is part of the "changing-the-culture" aspect of FIRST.

Similar Competitions - They may already have an extensive pre-engineering curriculum, or participate in BotBall, Battlebots IQ, or other robotics competitions. In this case, this is one place where you don't really need FIRST, since they already "get it" when it comes to STEM.

Mentors - It can be hard to recruit good STEM mentors to your team if there are no good engineering/technical companies in the area. Parents also make great mentors, but some schools have strict rules on who can be involved with any school affialated activity.

School Rules - Anything from insurance reasons, to paying for janitors, to accessing the school during off hours, to attending out-of-state trips, to having non-school personal interacting with students in a school-sponsored team can all be nails in the coffin for potential teams.

Religion - You won't see many Amish FIRST teams.

[Martinez]

Originally Posted by bigbeezy

Our County has been very good with accepting FIRST. We, as well as a number of other teams in the county, have shown what FIRST is all about to our Superintendant of Schools and he has fallen in Love with FIRST. By 2010, I believe, EVERY high school in the county will have its own team. And, I’m not sure about a timeline, EVERY middle and elementary school will have a Lego League Team (most already do).

That's absolutely amazing. Hopefully you can be model that every other region can then follow. I firmly stand by the FIRST vision of having it be available to every student across the country. Of course, one major impact of this is that fact that I was in 8 different schools growing up and NONE of them have FIRST today. We have alot of work to do. However, when the energy is placed on "evangalism" there are two problems I for see.

1) Media word of mouth will never be enough. Once someone has created a team, they are likely to be content with the work and people they have, thus not feeling the need to expand outward.

2) If the burden is placed on current teams, alot of them don't have the time, talent, or resources to provide mentorship or guidance towards the communities they live in so that those communities want more FIRST Teams.

Personally I would love to work for FIRST. Not IFI, but FIRST as their equivilant to a District Executive that the Boy Scouts have. Executives (in the Boy Scout sense) are responsible for maintaining the vitaltiy of their region in terms of quality programs and applicable numbers. Their districts are only a few small cities in size, so basically I would invision such a role as supporting Binghamton, Ithaca and Syracuse. We have a loooooong way to go before I see that happening.

Right now as I understand it, we only have Regional Executives like one for the entire NE and their main responsiblity is focused on Regionals. Thats a huge area of coverage AND we are missing the other side of the coin which is supporting those teams that already exist.

Here is another example of how I see FIRST as a Movement:
1) Our goal is to start a forest fire
2) We only have a box full of matches
3) Often we try to light full thick logs of wood
4) Then we wonder why it doesn't catch on.

If we REALLY want to get this off the ground, smaller scales and smaller regions are critical. I'm not say we should end things as they are now. Far from it. How ever there must be some middle ground so that new institutions can feed and grow into what exists today. What was VEX I see as a good beginning step, but lets face it, there is a massive difference between it and FIRST Robotics.

Personally, I think we need MORE off season completitions. Smaller, family friendly events that have easy access. Many identified prerookie teams are even able to have donated robots to compete. Now... just imagine how HUGE it could be if prerookie teams were allowed to invest say $2,500 into substidized old parts from IFI (like just a drive train) for offseason comps. Then we say, your allowed to use that drive train in the upcoming season since these are your basic buidling blocks. If you can't afford the $10,000 price tag for a full program it might be enough to get in the door and be hooked.

Think small, dream big, change the world. There is something to be said about a gradual growth process. Us FIRSTers are not good that "thinking small," but alot of people do and then we wonder why its so hard for them to catch our enthusism.

I also recommend people look into the work thats been done in Church Structures. Yeah I know, religion bad word. But if you think of them interms of communities it really makes sense. I think we need to understand some of this theory work if we as a body want to expand and grow. These Structures are built around size and resources. Like wise, these Structures have their own unique needs and orientations:

1) Family
So think of VEX as Family. Or, we really might not have a family struture. These are communities that are laylead lead, with only a few people of shared vaules. Having a robot in of itself is a major accomplishment. Right now I don't think they have a home. I should think on this and see if I can come up with some more applicable theory work.

2) Pastorial
I think this is where 75% of teams are at. The focus is around a "minister," which would be the teacher and a few key engineers. Great stuff, and its very personal. I'd say Chuck falls into this catagory. These are teams that enjoy qualifying round, but may not have the talent yet to always get picked.

3) Program
These are the teams who try for lots of different awards with in FIRST. Everyone can't do it all, and there is specialization by interest. There is likely even specialization within components on the robot. These are teams at regionals who frequently pick and get the most excitement in eliminations. They make it to Championships when ever possible.

There are also huge barriers to go from a Pastorial to Program structure, which I won't go into. I would say Division by Zero falls into this catagory. I also think a major source of frustration for me on Chuck, is this is the environment I thrive on and there is absolutely no interest in becoming a Program structured team.

4) Megas
These are the Legends. You recognize them, not just due to sheer size but also the tremendous amount of good work they're able to level. While usually lead by a few key visionaries, their success and energy is a major force of staying power. I'm talking your teams like Moe and X-Cats. You would be hard pressed not see them at Championships year after year. They always step up to the challange of winning Chairmens or making those elimnations.

Good stuff I hope, and its amazing the things you learn at a Leadership Training Camp.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Martinez

Here is another example of how I see FIRST as a Movement:
1) Our goal is to start a forest fire
2) We only have a box full of matches
3) Often we try to light full thick logs of wood
4) Then we wonder why it doesn't catch on.

If we REALLY want to get this off the ground, smaller scales and smaller regions are critical. I'm not say we should end things as they are now. Far from it. How ever there must be some middle ground so that new institutions can feed and grow into what exists today. What was VEX I see as a good beginning step, but lets face it, there is a massive difference between it and FIRST Robotics.

But drop one match on the ground in the dead leaves and small, rotting wood and what happens?

That's what happened with VEX/FVC/possibly FTC. We went to a smaller scale, lower cost and it caught on like wildfire. But, as fires go, it needs fresh fuel.

[IKE]

Talking with the technology teacher in my hometown it was cost. He has a supermileage team that runs on a budget of $1500 a year. While they feel that the program would be an awesome experience, they feel they can't justify the expense.

[R2D2DOC]

How about the attempt by Michigan FIRST to address alot of these issues. As mentioned in this thread, FIRST is handling a lot of the large scale issues and schools are in the lower levels of details. The Michigan FIRST program should help to fill the gap.

Any thoughts?

[dragoonex]

Even as a team that has participted in FIRST for 3 years now we still have major difficulty entering the competition each year. The problems really fall into two categories: Money and Faculty.

Money has always been an issue for us. In terms of school funding, we get next to nothing. Our school board won't sponsor us, and our school is only willing to give us $50. So we always have to find a lot of sponsors each year. Luckily this year we found a great sponsor/mentor who helped us greatly.

Faculty is also starting to become an issue. Our team only has one teacher sponsor and it is not reasonable for us to ask him to supervise us every meeting. He's a very busy person. We found another teacher sponsor to help us this year and that has helped, but faculty is still a big issue. Our mentor offered his shop to us, but that brought up another problem and that's transportation. Most of our meetings are held after school and bringing 20 or so students to his shop is difficult, especially in Canadian winters.

School rules are also a problem, but luckily our principle is fully behind the robotics program and even found us a very generous sponsor.

However, I think for most teams, these are the common barriers to entry.

[wendymom]

Brevard County in Florida has an awesome superintendent who is really pushing the program and its wonderful. However in Orange County next door they barely know we exist and have enough problems with finances as it is so that expecting a school to come up with 10K while having to trim 7% out of every school budget just wont happen.

The good news is that you don't have to have a school in order to have a team. We are a 4-H team and as such we don't have to jump through hoops. It is a huge commitment from parents and other professional mentors but there are many of us so the risk and responsibilities are spread out. We have to raise all of our own money but so do lots of school teams.

I think the money and time commitment are what keep schools from joining. Our parents run the team so as long as their are kids who want to be in FIRST, we will have a team.