New Speed Controller Announced

[lynca]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

NI is spending a lot of money promoting the Jaguar if it's not definite it will be included in the KOP

If you dig around the MentorSearch Channel you can find a few more interesting videos about the Jaguar and VXworks

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by lynca

If you dig around the MentorSearch Channel you can find a few more interesting videos about the Jaguar and VXworks

This is a great video. Things I noticed:

• It would be nice if the Brake/Coast feature was a switch and not a jumper. (People lose jumpers)
• CAN looks very powerful. I love how you can daisy chain Jaguars together. This will keep wiring simple.
• The Jaguars run on 12V (from the literature). Can you assume they know the robots electrical system will be 12V in 2009 with some sort of 24V transformer for the cRio?

[Richard McClellan]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

This is a great video. Things I noticed:

• It would be nice if the Brake/Coast feature was a switch and not a jumper. (People lose jumpers)
  

• The advantage of making it a jumper is so that you can connect it to one of your digital output ports and control it on the fly. Sometimes teams will use brake mode in autonomous and coast in user control, if that is what the drivers prefer.
  

  CAN looks very powerful. I love how you can daisy chain Jaguars together. This will keep wiring simple.

  I agree, this will be very slick. Unfortunately it won't be available the first year.
  

  The Jaguars run on 12V (from the literature). Can you assume they know the robots electrical system will be 12V in 2009 with some sort of 24V transformer for the cRio?

They are aware of all the features of the new control system, and since all the motors are going to be 12V (I guess I can't say that with certainty, actually) it would make sense for the speed controllers to have 12V input.

[Greg Needel]

I wonder if teams will be able to use the CAN network even if it isn't supported. All you would need is to buy the CAN module for the rio and hook them up, unless they are hardware disabled this year. I wonder who the first team to do this will be. My money is on 111, or 330.

[Richard McClellan]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

I wonder if teams will be able to use the CAN network even if it isn't supported. All you would need is to buy the CAN module for the rio and hook them up, unless they are hardware disabled this year. I wonder who the first team to do this will be. My money is on 111, or 330.

I asked about this at NI Week yesterday and they said that the FPGA image will not support the CAN module, and since you aren't legally allowed to change the image for 2009, so I guess you could do it, but it wouldn't be worth the effort since you'd have to get rid of it for competition anyways.

[Lowfategg]

Originally Posted by Richard McClellan

I asked about this at NI Week yesterday and they said that the FPGA image will not support the CAN module, and since you aren't legally allowed to change the image for 2009, so I guess you could do it, but it wouldn't be worth the effort since you'd have to get rid of it for competition anyways.

I still can't think of a good reason for disabling it. If we can't use CAN then all these really end up being is really large Victors.

Also, since I am new to FRC, I am guessing it would be illegal to strip off the silly plastic case on these. Might help weight and size (as well as cooling!).

[Richard McClellan]

Originally Posted by Lowfategg

I still can't think of a good reason for disabling it. If we can't use CAN then all these really end up being is really large Victors.

The only reason for disabling it is to reduce complexity since getting the new system is a huge change on its own. They wanted to finalize the FPGA image early to allow ample time for testing, and didn't have time to include support for CAN.

So, yes, they are really large Victors, but there's still four advantages that will apply for 2009 -
1. lower cost than the victors
2. better protection from metal shavings getting inside
3. higher frequency output to eliminate the "whine" that all FIRST robots with Victors have, usually most noticable at low speed.
4. built-in limit switch control to stop motor from going one direction or another

Originally Posted by Lowfategg

Also, since I am new to FRC, I am guessing it would be illegal to strip off the silly plastic case on these. Might help weight and size (as well as cooling!).

Yes it probably will be illegal to do that. I agree it would help weight and size because the PCB inside is at least 1/4", maybe 3/8" smaller than the plastic housing on all sides. That would add up to a lot of space savings. But it really isn't worth the risk of getting metal shavings in because there's no protection.

I do know they did extensive thermal testing to make sure the fan and ventilation was adequate and ran the controller well above its designed limits, and didn't fry anything. It is designed to automatically shut off if it reaches 60A or above for more than 2 seconds. It takes a second or two to cool down, and then will turn back on.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Richard McClellan

So, yes, they are really large Victors, but there's still four advantages that will apply for 2009 -
1. lower cost than the victors
2. better protection from metal shavings getting inside
3. higher frequency output to eliminate the "whine" that all FIRST robots with Victors have, usually most noticable at low speed.
4. built-in limit switch control to stop motor from going one direction or another

Eh, even with that, my team will be using victors in place of these for 2009 (as far as it is allowed). I can already see the size and weight savings being beneficial.

[Richard McClellan]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Eh, even with that, my team will be using victors in place of these for 2009 (as far as it is allowed). I can already see the size and weight savings being beneficial.

That seems logical, assuming you already have a supply of Victors lying around. For the teams that don't have a supply, it would be more difficult because the KOP will come with Jaguars, not Victors. They haven't said how many, but I would guess 4 since that's the usually number of motor controllers included. So that's an extra $460 for 4 Victors.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by Richard McClellan

That seems logical, assuming you already have a supply of Victors lying around. For the teams that don't have a supply, it would be more difficult because the KOP will come with Jaguars, not Victors. They haven't said how many, but I would guess 4 since that's the usually number of motor controllers included. So that's an extra $460 for 4 Victors.

I am going to wait for kickoff to make this decision to see if they are actually in the kit also how much they are each. With a ton of untested hardware this year it may be worth the extra money for victors just to know you have something that is bulletproof.

I think I must reiterate what Dave said, that FIRST hasn't said anything about these yet. While I am sure that there is some relationship don't get to excited or bent out of shape till you see them in your tote. Considering that they are hyping these things up without having the production cases on them yet doesn't instill much confidence.

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Richard McClellan

I asked about this at NI Week yesterday and they said that the FPGA image will not support the CAN module,

They better have a free upgrade service for the new software. I don't want devices in the KOP that require me to purchase something (in this case at least an emulator) to upgrade their functionality.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

[*]The Jaguars run on 12V (from the literature). Can you assume they know the robots electrical system will be 12V in 2009 with some sort of 24V transformer for the cRio?[/list]

Mike,
The power distro has a 12 to 24 volt convertor built into it to run the CRIO.

[Jon236]

Here's a good demo of the Jaguar. While it's clear from this that we won't use the CAN in 2009, no mention is given of the sensor support (Hall and encoders) mentioned in the press release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikgguMKqBk