Sport or not?

[Jeff K.]

If we put aside any other negative or positive connotations with sport and look at the definition. Other sports like baseball, football, running, cycling, or basketball may have blemished the term sport. In the past, I've done baseball, lacrosse, swimming, and cycling. Although FIRST is nowhere near as physically extreneous as these sports, there are physical aspects to it.

Some people do sport also to train, get in shape, or meet others. To this definition, FIRST applies, train for the future, get in shape with tools and mallets, and meeting others on your team and other teams.

Another definition of Sport is:
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
Human players do get fairly physical, and so do drivers as they get robots on and off the field and while driving. The pit crew joins them in getting physical as they work on the robot. Scouts get physical as they go around the pits. Rules, game rules we are given each year.

Another definition:
One known for the manner of one's acceptance of rules, especially of a game, or of a difficult situation.
ex: What a good sport, he shook the hands of the opposing team after the game.
Sounds like something FIRST has been trying to teach.

According to these definitions, FIRST is a sport. According to my definition of a fun recreational activity, FIRST is a sport as well. Play on!

[vivek16]

Originally Posted by Jeff K.

Another definition of Sport is:
Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
Human players do get fairly physical, and so do drivers as they get robots on and off the field and while driving. The pit crew joins them in getting physical as they work on the robot. Scouts get physical as they go around the pits. Rules, game rules we are given each year.

I get physical while building the robot. Things often need a bit of "persuasion".

I think that although robotics is not exactly a sport, it should get all the recognition that sports get, all the privileges sporting teams get, and more.

-vivek

[JohnBoucher]

"Sports" are nothing more than entertainment. There is no "VALUE" created beyond the entertainment. It doesn't make our cars run cleaner, grow better crops or clean polluted water.

FIRST creates value. FIRST makes society better through this collaboration between mentors and students. The FIRST program allows both the students and mentors to see the possibilities. It gives value in both directions.

The lessons of FIRST in the short term makes you a better student. The long term value is in how you react to the challenges that you will face in life. As a student you took on an impossibly hard challenge with an impossible time constraint and made it happen. That lesson will serve you well in the future.

Not Sport

[Jeff K.]

John, this isn't a flame at you. I have great respect for you, but I'm just using some of your quotes to get my thoughts flowing.

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

"Sports" are nothing more than entertainment.

You might want to watch out when you say that. I'm not exactly sure olympic athletes training all their lives for the most grueling two and a half weeks of competition would like to know that they are doing nothing more than entertaining.

I don't see sports as only a thing to watch on the TV or to buy tickets to go see in a stadium or arena. Seems that's how most Americans see it as we are one of the most obese nations in the world. There's the whole participatory aspect to it as well.

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

There is no "VALUE" created beyond the entertainment. It doesn't make our cars run cleaner, grow better crops or clean polluted water.

I know one sport shaping the future of the global automotive industry..Formula 1. Many of the advancements in that field of motorsports are being put back into our own cars for daily use. Making cars more aerodynamic, efficient, better handling, better stopping, more reliable, and the list goes on. Next season they're going to work on implementing KERS in the cars to further their efficiency. It's a CVT that engages during braking to capture extra kinetic energy to put it to use. Some neat stuff that will help to make cars run cleaner.

What made the world so polluted in the first place? Industry, cars, factories. Getting away from these and using alternative forms such as maybe walking or cycling or even skateboarding from here to there will help make us less reliant on cars.

Like others mentioned, I see FIRST on the same level as motorsports. The vehicle, or car is just the means for teaching. There's a lot that can be learnt from Rally racing, Formula 1, A1GP, Baja, etc.

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

FIRST creates value. FIRST makes society better through this collaboration between mentors and students.

The same could be argued about the YMCA, or club teams, or soccer teams. Working with the coaches, the students build a relationship and have a rolemodel. Sports were a big one during the a|n|t|i|d|r|u|g campaign. Students were doing something better and more beneficial during their time and were building character and value. They valued themselves and their teammates.

You might not all see sports the same way as I do, and we will all still have our own little disputes about different topics. Still seems pretty evenly divided (36-27) as to whether or not FIRST falls into the categories of Sport. I see it has the positive attributes of a sport, but won't be an olympic sport anytime soon. However though, it has been featured in ESPN.

[acdcfan259]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

"Sports" are nothing more than entertainment. There is no "VALUE" created beyond the entertainment. It doesn't make our cars run cleaner, grow better crops or clean polluted water.

Really? How many people show up to watch track meets that aren't family?

No value. I can say that I've learned more about myself from XC and Track than from robotics. While the community may not gain anything from sports, almost everyone who participates in a sport has a personal gain.

Sports weren't created for entertainment, they were created as a way to have fun, as a game. Even today you'll hear athletes say, "At the end of the day you just gotta go out there and have fun."

I have a feeling that most people on here haven't actually participated in a sport beyond little league. So we're getting a major bias. Until you actually participate in a sport in high school or wherever else, you don't really fully understand sports.

[tennispro9911]

Originally Posted by acdcfan259

Really? How many people show up to watch track meets that aren't family?

No value. I can say that I've learned more about myself from XC and Track than from robotics. While the community may not gain anything from sports, almost everyone who participates in a sport has a personal gain.

Sports weren't created for entertainment, they were created as a way to have fun, as a game. Even today you'll hear athletes say, "At the end of the day you just gotta go out there and have fun."

I have a feeling that most people on here haven't actually participated in a sport beyond little league. So we're getting a major bias. Until you actually participate in a sport in high school or wherever else, you don't really fully understand sports.

I agree. I've learned a ton from sports. I have had so many life lessons because of tennis. Robotics has taught me a ton too, but I've only been involved with FIRST for 2 years while I've been around tennis for 18 years, I played soccer starting at 4 years old, I played hockey at 4, and I played baseball for a few years.

Sports (should) teach lessons through a head fake of sorts. I played tennis when I was really young, got mad, and smashed my racket on the court. It became oddly shaped because of that, but my parents forced me to play with that racket for a year or so. Due to that, I gave much more value to my possessions. This is just one example of how someone would learn a lesson through sports. Sports are important for more than just physical activity.

However, I don't think I degrade sports when I say that I think FIRST is better. I understand (mostly) the benefits of sports. I've been a sports person my entire life, and will play Division 3 tennis.

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by acdcfan259

Really? How many people show up to watch track meets that aren't family?

No value. I can say that I've learned more about myself from XC and Track than from robotics. While the community may not gain anything from sports, almost everyone who participates in a sport has a personal gain.

Sports weren't created for entertainment, they were created as a way to have fun, as a game. Even today you'll hear athletes say, "At the end of the day you just gotta go out there and have fun."

I have a feeling that most people on here haven't actually participated in a sport beyond little league. So we're getting a major bias. Until you actually participate in a sport in high school or wherever else, you don't really fully understand sports.

I see what you are saying about the bias.

With all of the sports I play and follow, I feel like in 10 years of sports I haven't learned as much as I have in two years of FIRST. It is probably different for everyone though.

My opinion is very biased because all I think about is FIRST and I intend to go to college for engineering.

Sports are important and do teach valuable lessons, but from my position, FIRST has taught me much more than sports.

It goes beyond learning though, sports do keep me in better shape, one thing FIRST doesn't do for me is keep me in shape.(We do have poeple on our team that lose weight during the build season though.)

Beyond learning and physical ability, there is fun. Sports are very fun, but I'd be hard pressed to find something more fun than a FIRST competition. The build season is always really fun as well.

[mathking]

As someone who coaches both a robotics team and a cross-country team, I would argue that they can teach many of the same things. I enjoy coaching both teams. (I have also coached track, soccer and basketball.) And I have had cross-country and track athletes, soccer players, football players, golfers, tennis players, baseball players and volleyball players on my FIRST team. As with many things in life, how you do it makes all the difference. The first step is your approach. In this I am guided by the words of a good friend from quite a few years ago: "As a coach, I need to teach my athletes. If they haven't learned over the course of the season, I haven't done a good job."

As for sports not adding anything of value, please do not discount physical fitness as an important added value. Americans are particularly unfit on the average, and being on a sports team can be a big help in teaching kids how to make healthy life choices. Sports can also teach you how to respond challenges. It takes just as much hard work to be good at a sport as it does to be good at FIRST. Like FIRST, some people will be naturally better at some aspects of sports than other people, but everyone gets better by working at it. You know, the more I think about it, the benefits earned and lessons learned in FIRST and cross-country are remarkably similar.

None of this should be construed as wanting FIRST to be more like the win at all costs ideal which has permeated too much of our sporting culture in the world. But please don't fall into the trap of feeling superior just because you participate in FIRST or of denigrating other athletes because you don't like there sports. One of the reasons I like cross-country and track is the fact that you can't control how fast your opponents run. All you can do is run your fastest. And most athletes measure their success in a season by how much they improved over the course of the season. You also tend to run against the same people several times a year, sometimes as many as 7 or 8 times. This lends itself to a very friendly, almost graciously professional atmosphere at meets. Runners congratulate each other after runs.

Good sportsmanship is something that FIRST tries to foster. And most sports teams at the high school level try to as well. This is not just at the high school level. After the Olympic 1500 meter race in 2004, Hicham el-Guerrouj was kneeling on the track after winning the gold medal. Bernard Lagat, who won the silver, came over to give him a hug of congratulations. Have any of you ever seen the football (soccer) tradition of exchanging jerseys after a hard fought game?

So I guess my point is that whether you do FIRST or some other sport (I guess that answers as to my opinion on the question at hand) you can do it well or not. So choose to do it well and get as much as you can from what you do.