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  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-08-2008, 23:34
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Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST

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Religion - You won't see many Amish FIRST teams.
This is just wrong. Having lived with Amish neighbors for half of my life, there is nothing in their religion that prohibits working with robotics.

#1 Batteries are allowed. Some power source is required for their buggy lights. ( and secret cell phones, tvs, freezers,etc)

#2 Pnuematic tires are not allowed. Not a problem here either.

#3 Electricity cannot be provided by the grid. There is no prohibition against providing it with a generator powered by kerosene or solar/wind power.

The only reason you will not see many Amish teams is because most of the Amish drop out after age 16 and are privately schooled. They are fully capable to participate and most have a mechanical knack to pull off winning teams.

To all CD posters and readers, please refrain from your comments on the basis of religious beliefs, color, creed, etc. You are only highlighting your own arrogance and prejudices.

Amish men and women are not required to accept thier faith until age 18 if memory serves me correct. Don't write off a viable group before it's time. They are no different than anybody else.Thier blood still runs red. Only thier beliefs may seem off from the main stream.
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Unread 08-08-2008, 12:31
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Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST

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Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman View Post
For those who live in such a downtrodden community, there is a distinct difference between dreaming about the ideal future and actually making it happen within the REALITY many here trudge through every day. Change occurs at a much slower pace here against a much greater resistance, to the point where even the mildest of victories that are considered trivial or meaningless in better-off communities are celebrated as major achievements locally by those who attempt to affect change. People who think an entire community will up and reverse decades of entrenched mindset overnight are deluding themselves!

Many of these failed levies are for basic school repairs and operating expenses. Extracurricular programs are being cut and families have to pay to play at many schools. If families are reluctant/unable to vote for those basics due to personal finances or bitterness generated by their employment situations, do you think they are going to get right up and throw money and time at STEM programs?

It was inevitable - some generation had to pay the price during the region's transition from the corporate-subsidized, high wages and benefits with little more than a high school education days to the go out and get a college degree in order to obtain a secure, well paying job (and even that relative security is in question for many degreed people working in this area any more.....).

A few high schools and the local universities (Youngstown State and Kent State) are actively working together to pursue and integrate STEM initiatives into school curriculums. YSU is attempting to rally local industry to the cause as well, to create a pipeline of STEM-based students from school through to college and eventually into the local workforce.

Our local U.S. Representative Tim Ryan is very pro-STEM and understands the need to transition the local economy away from manufacturing toward more high-tech endeavors. He recently worked with several veteran local FRC teams to secure $180,000 in funding to startup new FIRST teams locally. We will have one new FRC team from the area in 2009 funded out of that amount. We're hoping that by bringing this and the NASA grant opportunity to the table, schools will be willing to "take the bait" and start up new programs, get their communities and local businesses interested.....well, you know the rest.

There are also several business incubators in the area attempting to attract high-tech industries to startup/relocate here.

These are all noble efforts that run counter to the notion that the area is "dying". However, it still takes an entire community of people to "buy" what these relative few are "selling". The number of people involved in these STEM initiatives pales in comparison to the size of the disaffected general population here who have lost much due to downsizing and shutdowns. You don't walk up to their door and shout "STEM!!!!!" in their faces and get them to do cartwheels in the streets after they just lost their jobs or had their wages cut in half and pensions slashed. You'd be lucky to walk away without receiving a fist to the gut.

Bottom line - it's going to take some time to break people out of their rut and see the light of change - much moreso than other relatively better-off communities in which these high-tech initiatives are more readily embraced. So yes, regional economics and the voting attitude of the communities toward their school districts definitely play large roles in the rate at which area schools adopt FIRST as a program.
I agree.

Your post frames the problems of many communities perfectly.

It frames the issues of changing the culture of a community that is 'downtrodden' and does not wish to change. Change is scary for a lot of people because it takes them out of their comfort zone. Many will refuse to change even when they know that what they are currently doing isn't working.

Free market economics is basically economic Darwinism where it's not "survival of the fittest" but instead "those that can most adapt to change".

Most success stories are not about giant leaps but instead many, many baby steps ... each baby step (victory) being 1 step towards the goal. And it's difficult to get people to start those baby steps because it's hard work and long hours for what seems like little gain (each baby step).
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  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-08-2008, 11:52
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Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST

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Originally Posted by EOC View Post
It's all about the cost; every time I try to recruit an area high school the reception is very positive until I explain the money envolved; at that point they lose interest and state the cost is prohibitive.
Less cost = more teams!
As I understand it, the original FIRST model was for corporations to initiate teams in cooperation with schools. That's how our team was founded. Things went swimmingly until the corporation in question moved out of our state and ceased funding and providing engineer mentors and our meeting place.

Our school wants the robotics program and has provided a very good meeting room and shop and a teacher mentor for us but they are unable to provide money. Seeking a new corporate sponsor is difficult because as soon as we say we are not a 501(c)(3) charity the business people loose interest.

FIRST wants to add new teams (an admirable goal), but they should also think about giving corporations the option to take over teams that have been abandoned by past corporate sponsors. We have a great set-up, a willing school administration, a teacher, etc. but if we don't get major funding and engineering mentors, our outlook is at best bleak.
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Unread 09-08-2008, 14:35
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Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST

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Originally Posted by NEMentor470 View Post
... as soon as we say we are not a 501(c)(3) charity the business people lose interest.
But FIRST is 501(c)(3). You can set it up for the business to deposit directly to FIRST in your account.
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Unread 09-08-2008, 15:52
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Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST

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Originally Posted by NEMentor470 View Post
As I understand it, the original FIRST model was for corporations to initiate teams in cooperation with schools. That's how our team was founded. Things went swimmingly until the corporation in question moved out of our state and ceased funding and providing engineer mentors and our meeting place.

Our school wants the robotics program and has provided a very good meeting room and shop and a teacher mentor for us but they are unable to provide money. Seeking a new corporate sponsor is difficult because as soon as we say we are not a 501(c)(3) charity the business people loose interest.

FIRST wants to add new teams (an admirable goal), but they should also think about giving corporations the option to take over teams that have been abandoned by past corporate sponsors. We have a great set-up, a willing school administration, a teacher, etc. but if we don't get major funding and engineering mentors, our outlook is at best bleak.

Most Schools are by nature 501 C 3s. They are tax-exempt. Check with your schools bookeeper, they may have the information you need to submit to corporations. Your other option is to become an after school 4-H or Girl Scout club, both of those have 501 C 3 status as well.
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Unread 11-08-2008, 14:04
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Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST

Quick question here before I start a new thread on the topic:

Who would be willing to pay a vollenteered admission fee for Regional Competitions if you KNEW it was going to the creation of a brand new rookee team next year?

Think about it. 40+ teams X 25+ members X $5 = $5,000+.
Thats a brand new kit folks for a new regional team that can't start due to costs.

I know how huge the dedication is to the people here, especially to their team. But how much do you think people would be interested in steping up, to see the good of the collective whole? $5 is less than your food or movie ticket, yet together its enough power to really kick off some good.

Partially I ask because I am prepared (due largely to personal reason) to spend a few thousand dollars per year towards new teams if knew it would be enough to get them going. That and I think the most successful program to date was the NASA grant with the hundreds of new teams involved there. Yes, I'm crazy... but am I the only one?
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Unread 11-08-2008, 14:21
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Re: Barriers to Entry: Why schools DON'T join FIRST

The largest barrier that I see is teacher buy in.
Most programs start with teachers in the respective schools.
Most wont want to do it, even in our own school.
Without knowing the full potential "experience" that FIRST can bring, its a hard sell when you find out the cost, time, experience and support that you need.
We can present all day long about why FIRST is important in changing the culture of the type of students that we have today. But, as long as other programs are available, there are other options.
I think people that do FIRST have a special interest in doing it that certainly outweighs the barriers.
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