**FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System

[Shadow503]

People should remember that this is a BETA test.

"Betaware is a nickname for software which has passed the alpha testing stage of development and has been released to a limited amount of users for software testing before its official release. Beta testing allows the software to undergo usability testing with users who provide feedback, so that any malfunctions these users find in the software can be reported to the developers and fixed."

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_test#Beta]

The intention of this is so that NI and WPI can work out any bugs before the season. Everyone in FIRST benefits from a functional, stable control system. Rookie teams may have a hard time setting up and using the controller. NI and WPI need teams that will be able to delve into the low levels of this controller's capabilities.

And as mentioned before, FIRST is doing an excellent job of ensuring that teams that don't beta test the controller will still get a fair chance. And I don't foresee these 4 hour seminars being dry lectures. I know I would rather help a rookie programmer by giving them hands on experience than by babbling on about setting up I/O functions for 4 hours.

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by FIRST

Greetings Teams:

....

FIRST is asking interested, eligible FRC teams to submit a written proposal via this application form <http://www.usfirst.org/forms.aspx?ekfrm=9446> by August 15th, 2008 on why they would be a good candidate, how they intend to collaborate and work with their neighboring teams, and what they intend to do if they receive the new control system.

...

Applications for beta test teams will be reviewed by a panel of Championship Woodie Flowers Award Winners.

Selected teams will be notified by September 1st, 2008 and control systems will be shipped starting September 15th, 2008 after FIRST receives the test schedule and plan from the beta tester. Please direct questions regarding submissions to FRCbetatest@usfirst.org.

...

Go Teams!

This is a reminder that the applications for beta testing are due to this Friday, August 15th.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

[Richard McClellan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Freeman

Giving the new system to the new teams early might be a better idea. The way it is now, the veteran teams selected for this program aren't going to run into problems because they've been given the system early. Rookie teams are going to have to learn the system as well as go through every other problem rookie teams face programming-wise (such as how to program).

I'm not sure how many bugs veteran teams are going to find in this system anyway. Isn't this just a small version of what NASA used on the mars rovers? (If not then someone correct me) I think NASA and NI would have already found any big problems with this system.

The veteran teams are going to help other teams learn how to use this system, but aren't they still put at an advantage?

This is the same hardware, but the software libraries for both LabVIEW and C++ are totally new, so they will need to be debugged.

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Silly question... where did the number of 15 units come from? Best I can tell Cory was just throwing a number out there, as I dont see it officially anywhere... and before people get too bent up about it, I was wondering if I missed it somewhere...

According to an NI employee over at the booth by the demo robot at NI Week, they will be shipping 20 systems out to beta teams. Of course, this is not official, this is just what I heard.

[Mr. Freeman]

Only 20 systems are being distributed? I know that the majority of teams are not going to be making 8 hour(or more) road trips to go visit a team across a state, or in another state to attend Saturday lectures and labs. I think more than 20 systems need to be distributed for most teams to have any hands-on experience with the controller.

[whytheheckme]

I believe that only 12 systems are being distributed.

Jacob

[JaneYoung]

Taken from the initial email:

While FIRST would like to provide every team with a control system for evaluation in the beta test, FIRST must limit the scope of this test program due to the number of control systems available at this early date.

Our beta test team selection criteria, out of necessity, narrows the list of potential participants but is not intended to favor or disfavor any specific teams. One goal of the beta test program is to strengthen local communication and support networks, so FIRST will select the teams that will do the best job of disseminating the knowledge accumulated through testing.

Based on the email, it is clear there will be a limited # of teams that will do the testing and provide the information required, as stated in that same email.

I am not a fan of guessing, posting guesses, or hinting at information - esp. if it doesn't really contribute in a beneficial manner.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

This is a reminder that the applications for beta testing are due to this Friday, August 15th.

I was re-reading the thread and noticed Andy's reminder. This is a time when that innovative notion kicks in that some or many of us can feel antsy about and I'd like to take a moment to commend the teams that have taken the initiative to put forth a proposal, stepping up to be leaders in their communities. I'd also like to encourage teams who are interested but have not submitted a proposal, to do so by Friday. My thinking is: the more submissions, the better the selection for the beta testing. Good luck all.

Jane

[Kims Robot]

Anyone else notice that they posed a 2500 character limit but didnt give a count in the application? Im hoping they will be a few characters lenient for teams that try to push right to the 2500 characters using word or excel or some other character count method...

[ttldomination]

Anyone else having trouble coming up with a good essay under 2500 characters? Including Spaces?

We're having a hard time and its getting harder and harder to post it.

Kims, the system won't accept over 2500. Trust me, i've tried.

[Paul Copioli]

Here is a warning for those of you thinking of posting over 2500 characters (becasue the system will let you): don't do it. Your entire essay will not even be looked at. Please follow this simple rule. Be concise and be clear as everyone has this limit.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Zflash

The teams that were selected for the NI LabVIEW and Data Acquisition Pilot Program.

1676 is one of those teams; we did post a bunch of info somewhere buy I can't remember where (nor can I find it); I will research it see what I can find. IIRC we learned a lot about LabView, and it helped us refine some of the code on the robot by measuring accelerations and temperatures and stuff.

Anyway, about the 2500 word limit: There is a quote attributed to Mark Twain and to Blaise Pascal (I suspect Twain is the one), to the effect

I apologize for the long letter, I did not have the time to write a short one

What this means is that it is more difficult to make your point in a short essay than in a long one. You need to be a good writer to shorten an essay.

I wonder if spaces count towards the 2500? I would think so.

Don

[Rosiebotboss]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

I wonder if spaces count towards the 2500? I would think so.

Don

Yes. 2500 characters. Periods, commas, spaces, quotation marks, etc. etc...

Ours came in at 2499.

[whytheheckme]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

Anyone else notice that they posed a 2500 character limit but didnt give a count in the application? Im hoping they will be a few characters lenient for teams that try to push right to the 2500 characters using word or excel or some other character count method...

Looking at the HTML code:

<td><textarea id="Why" onblur="design_validate_js('this.text.length &lt;= 2500',this,'Allow maximum of 2500 characters');" 
title="Why" name="Why" rows="5" cols="40" ektdesignns_validation="max1000Chars" 
ektdesignns_basetype="textbox" ektdesignns_validate="js:this.text.length &lt;= 2500" 
ektdesignns_invalidmsg="Allow maximum of 2500 characters" 
ektdesignns_name="Why" ektdesignns_caption="Why" 
ektdesignns_nodetype="element" max="2500"></textarea>
  </td>

we can see that the text field will only permit 2500 characters.

Just a heads up.

Jacob

[BrianT103]

Could someone who knows for certain as to what the 2,500 character limit pertains to reply to this post. It was previously stated that the 2,500 limit included spaces, could someone on the judging panel verify this statement.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Here is a warning for those of you thinking of posting over 2500 characters (becasue the system will let you): don't do it. Your entire essay will not even be looked at. Please follow this simple rule. Be concise and be clear as everyone has this limit.

But how do we know what the 2,500 characters is? We did our Chairmans Essay in word and it came to 9,998 characters, and when we put it into the chairmans form, the CA form told us we had 10,012!! So if there is no feedback to the submitter and they are cutting it close, how are they to know that the count that they used in Word isnt the same as the count in the website script? We buffered ours by several characters to hope to make sure, but cant tell if there is any real way to know if we are under the scripts version of 2500...