pic: Floating Zip Tie Chain Tensioner

[joshsmithers]

Wow. This made my day. My only question is: is the uhmw that you use tough enough and how thick is it? Does it wear down after a few matches? I'm guessing that it's easy enough to make plenty of extras out of a hunk of u channel. Did you replace the tensioner often(every match)?

[M. Mellott]

This really is a great idea!!

Not to get too off-topic, but while developing a patent for this idea can be very pricey and time-consuming, there is another option. You have to remember what a patent is for: to document that this is your idea and you came up with it before anyone else so that no one else can profit from it (except for you, of course).

First, create a white paper on your tensioner, or a detailed document describing the device and its development. Be as detailed as possible, and include as many options as your team can think of (BTW, I like the hose clamp idea). Include drawings, photgraphs, names, etc. Once you have that, file an application for a copyright on the document (I think it's about $40 for the application fee). Now, if anyone else takes your idea and goes to market with it, you have proof (with a critical government timestamp, no less) that you came up with the idea first. With that document, you could give that to any lawyer who would gladly sue that person/company that's using your idea for a piece of the profit. I know of several people who do this regularly with ideas they develope.

Sure, if you're going to take it to market yourself, a full-blown patent might be the way to go. But, if all you want to do is protect your future rights to your invention, a copyright is a whole lot cheaper. To top it off, if I remember correctly, while an expensive patent lasts only a few years (relatively speaking), a copyright lasts the lifetime of the filer plus 70 years.

But getting back on topic, I agree that this tensioner idea could be something that you and/or your team might want to protect.

[Akash Rastogi]

This is why I love Madtown's designs. simple and effective.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by M. Mellott

This really is a great idea!!

Not to get too off-topic, but while developing a patent for this idea can be very pricey and time-consuming, there is another option. You have to remember what a patent is for: to document that this is your idea and you came up with it before anyone else so that no one else can profit from it (except for you, of course).

First, create a white paper on your tensioner, or a detailed document describing the device and its development. Be as detailed as possible, and include as many options as your team can think of (BTW, I like the hose clamp idea). Include drawings, photgraphs, names, etc. Once you have that, file an application for a copyright on the document (I think it's about $40 for the application fee). Now, if anyone else takes your idea and goes to market with it, you have proof (with a critical government timestamp, no less) that you came up with the idea first. With that document, you could give that to any lawyer who would gladly sue that person/company that's using your idea for a piece of the profit. I know of several people who do this regularly with ideas they develope.

Sure, if you're going to take it to market yourself, a full-blown patent might be the way to go. But, if all you want to do is protect your future rights to your invention, a copyright is a whole lot cheaper. To top it off, if I remember correctly, while an expensive patent lasts only a few years (relatively speaking), a copyright lasts the lifetime of the filer plus 70 years.

But getting back on topic, I agree that this tensioner idea could be something that you and/or your team might want to protect.

There is a major flaw in your idea. There is something called the "public disclosure clause" for patents. Basically as soon as you show your idea in a public place (a regional, or chiefdelphi would defiantly count) you have started a one year clock. If you don't file a patent within that time frame then it is considered public domain and regardless of your time proof. That being the case anyone could come to market with this thing and you would have no protection.

If you don't wish to do a full fledged patent at this time you can always file a provisional patent which adds one year of protection to give you the time to file a patent if you want.

In my honest opinion I wouldn't worry about patenting this. If you go do a quick patent search for "chain tensioner" you will see literally hundreds of different methods. While what you have made has quite alot of use in the robotics community the use for industry is minimal, where size and weight constraints don't really exist in many of the applications.

I don't mean to discourage you and I think that everyone should try for a few patents in their lives but you need to decide if getting a patent will be worth the effort and experience. If your interest is selling this tensioner then just do it, and you don't need a patent. For example look at andymark, they sell loads of items and don't have patents on most of them.


As for the design I like the concept alot, I would make sure that you add a chamfer or round on the lead in edges both on the zip tie holders and the chain channel. UHMW is great for it's lubricity but may not stand up under alot of use which is up to you because these will be cheap and easy to replace. I would look at delrin or some other harder plastics.

[roboticWanderor]

Or you could creative commons license it, preventing someone from stealing your idea for profit, but allowing anyone to copy it for their own use. I am even thinking of how this could be used in my own designs. thanks!

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by roboticWanderor

Or you could creative commons license it, preventing someone from stealing your idea for profit, but allowing anyone to copy it for their own use. I am even thinking of how this could be used in my own designs. thanks!

That's not how CCL works. It's a form of copyright protection only.

When you copyright something, you're asserting ownership of the work (of art, of literature, etc.), but you don't have protection for the engineering information contained inside. So by copyrighting a drawing, you prevent someone from redistributing facsimilies of the drawing, but are not protected against someone reading it and implementing the object depicted. The CCL just changes the terms of the copyright licence to permit not-for-profit use, usually with attribution.

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

Back in '07 I saw Team 8 put a zip-tie around a chain on their roller-claw Now there's a simple method!

I'm curious about what happens when the blocks twist around. I mean, the zip-ties aren't gonna hold them perfectly flush like that. What happens when they twist and jam into the side of the chain?

We had these kinds of problems when we used delrin tensioners in our '06 drive train. The chain was always grinding against the sides of the slots we cut in the delrin. Wasted a lot of power that way.

Very creative though. I like the way you think

Hachiban, you might be surprised how flush they stayed. They actually work really well. The zip ties offer enough tension but not too much.

Originally Posted by rocketperson44

You just gave everyone here a "Why didn't I think of that?" moment.

Great Idea.

If you go along with Brandon's Idea to patent, and possibly sell it, may I suggest small Hose clamps as an alternative to zipties? It would make it larger and heavier, but also possible to adjust in two directions. It would also keep the tensioner in one piece, so that users cannot lose the second half of it. Finally, it would make it more robust. This would help its use in applications with larger chain/greater power use than FIRST.

Thanks, hoseclamps would work so much better.

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

do remember that if you patent it you have to give everyone due credit and a piece of the pie

I came up with the idea by myself and the chiefdelphi community gave me the idea of hoseclamps. Do I give credit to the team or to who? Semi confused, probably because I just woke up and have not had breakfast/lunch.

Originally Posted by joshsmithers

Wow. This made my day. My only question is: is the uhmw that you use tough enough and how thick is it? Does it wear down after a few matches? I'm guessing that it's easy enough to make plenty of extras out of a hunk of u channel. Did you replace the tensioner often(every match)?

UHMW is pretty good and thatz why i picked it. We have using McMasters floating chain tensioners for about three years. We haven't replaced them for 3 comps and offseason events. So uhmw is pretty good for us. The wear is minimal only if the chain isn't too tight and has a little bit of slop. We used this on our 5th match at nationals. So we have only used these for three matches and a couple of offseason demos. You could make these out of chuncks of u channel or cnc out blocks of uhmw. We never replaced the old tensioner accept when it over tensioned or was getting stuck or when it just wasn't working.

Originally Posted by M. Mellott

This really is a great idea!!

Not to get too off-topic, but while developing a patent for this idea can be very pricey and time-consuming, there is another option. You have to remember what a patent is for: to document that this is your idea and you came up with it before anyone else so that no one else can profit from it (except for you, of course).

First, create a white paper on your tensioner, or a detailed document describing the device and its development. Be as detailed as possible, and include as many options as your team can think of (BTW, I like the hose clamp idea). Include drawings, photgraphs, names, etc. Once you have that, file an application for a copyright on the document (I think it's about $40 for the application fee). Now, if anyone else takes your idea and goes to market with it, you have proof (with a critical government timestamp, no less) that you came up with the idea first. With that document, you could give that to any lawyer who would gladly sue that person/company that's using your idea for a piece of the profit. I know of several people who do this regularly with ideas they develope.

Sure, if you're going to take it to market yourself, a full-blown patent might be the way to go. But, if all you want to do is protect your future rights to your invention, a copyright is a whole lot cheaper. To top it off, if I remember correctly, while an expensive patent lasts only a few years (relatively speaking), a copyright lasts the lifetime of the filer plus 70 years.

But getting back on topic, I agree that this tensioner idea could be something that you and/or your team might want to protect.

What if I just sell it to Andy Mark??

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

This is why I love Madtown's designs. simple and effective.

Thanks for your support guys

[RMS11]

Another thing you might want to try is kevlar. It is a bit more expensive but should last longer and have less friction.

[joshsmithers]

Originally Posted by rc_cola1323

What if I just sell it to Andy Mark??

Or you could start your own business manufaturing chain and belt tensioners. Maybe donate some to FIRST for next year's KOP...

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by RMS11

Another thing you might want to try is kevlar. It is a bit more expensive but should last longer and have less friction.

It would be nice, but it is way too expensive.

[Triple B]

money complicates everything, free ideas for everyone
mike d

[R.C.]

Also another question, would teams buy this if they were available???

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by rc_cola1323

Also another question, would teams buy this if they were available???

Yes, especially if offered in multiple sizes. We've had some issues with our homebuilt non-floating tensioners over the years, and never had enough money to spare for several McMaster-style tensioners.

[R.C.]

What sizes would you want? Currently we have:

1.25 x 2.5

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by rc_cola1323

What sizes would you want? Currently we have:

1.25 x 2.5

I meant for different chain sizes. #25, #35.