**FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System

[ttldomination]

Uh, yeah, 1848 in our area, SOUP!.

Does anyone have their website?

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

Uh, yeah, 1848 in our area, SOUP!.

Does anyone have their website?

i do not have SOUP's website, Team 79's website is Krunch79.com, although we have no info on there about the Beta yet.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by rtfgnow

i do not have SOAP's website, Team 79's website is Krunch79.com, although we have no info on there about the Beta yet.

SOUP not SOAP

SOUP does not have a website on TBA.

[ATannahill]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

SOUP not SOAP

SOUP does not have a website on TBA.

fixed

[Jeremy Roberts]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

Uh, yeah, 1848 in our area, SOUP!.

Does anyone have their website?

SOUP and the GT RoboJackets who host the GA training sessions (Technology Enrichment Sessions) are working together and applied under the SOUP (1848) team number (as they are mentors and a sponsor). Currently information will be going out in our area via their website (www.robojackets.org). The SOUP website is under construction and if used they will update their TIMS profile and let the teams know. They are waiting to hear from FIRST HQ in regards to when information can be release and when it can be incorporated into the sessions (on campus and remotely). If you have any questions feel free to direct them my way.

[Justin Montois]

For Team 340, I want to say that we are extremely excited for the opportunity to test the new control system.
We have a large density of teams in our immediate area and we will work closely with those teams yet at the same time we recognize the scarcity of this opportunity and will try our best to supply all teams with the very best information possible.

2009 has begun and we can't wait to start doing some Beta testing!

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Roberts

SOUP and the GT RoboJackets who host the GA training sessions (Technology Enrichment Sessions) are working together and applied under the SOUP (1848) team number (as they are mentors and a sponsor). Currently information will be going out in our area via their website (www.robojackets.org). The SOUP website is under construction and if used they will update their TIMS profile and let the teams know. They are waiting to hear from FIRST HQ in regards to when information can be release and when it can be incorporated into the sessions (on campus and remotely). If you have any questions feel free to direct them my way.

So, just to make sure, are the open sessions going to be held at GA Tech? or are they going to be held at SOUP's official location?

[Greg Needel]

I thought I would just post a reminder out there about being respectful and understanding of the teams who were selected for this beta test. I am sure that all the teams chosen will do their best to bring the information to the community.

That being said please remember a few things.

• each team was selected for a reason, and why that may not be clear trust the people who did the picking
• While suggestions for things you would like to see are always good, don't get upset if it doesn't happen. Each team will have their own test plan and you should respect that.
• If you are on a team who was not selected for the beta test it doesn't mean you aren't capable, it just means you didn't fit this time. It might have been location, skill set, or a bunch of other variable that are unknown. Whatever the reason don't take your frustrations out on the teams that did get selected.
• FIRST is having teams selected sign a Non-disclosure agreement, which has the ability to limit the flow of information from beta teams to the public. Be aware that even if a beta team wants to tell you something they may be legally bound not to.

I am sure there are a few other things that teams should think about but ultimately it comes down to this. FIRST is doing us a favor by even allowing this beta test to happen, don't turn it into a bad thing. Lets try to avoid the saying: "no good deed goes unpunished" and leave the teams who are putting the hard work in for all of us with a good feeling at the end of this by not criticizing them.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

FIRST is having teams selected sign a Non-disclosure agreement, which has the ability to limit the flow of information from beta teams to the public. Be aware that even if a beta team wants to tell you something they may be legally bound not to.

I understand that, at some level, having some access to the system at all early is a good thing, but the notion of limiting the information that's made available to other teams is completely absurd and seems counter intuitive to the criteria team applications were judged upon.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

I understand that, at some level, having some access to the system at all early is a good thing, but the notion of limiting the information that's made available to other teams is completely absurd and seems counter intuitive to the criteria team applications were judged upon.

Possibly, but l will play devils advocate for a second. I am team X who is in the beta test and we hit a snag when downloading our labview code to the crio. Immediately we go to our blog and post about the error. Team Y from another state who is not in the beta test reads this and gets really panicked, and then they come post it on delphi and now there is a rumor that the crio has problems when you download code to it. When in actuality the team had the wrong port setting setup in labview and everything was fine. Having an intermediary such as FIRST or NI before info hits the public will be good in this situation.

Now one could say that if it hit the public someone might be able to quickly fix the problem. But as the complexity of the task increases it will be hit or miss if the problems can be solved.

From reading posts over the past year or so since the new control system was announced I have come to realized that people are very nervous about it and the last thing we need at this point is a mob mentality spreading rumors.

[rwood359]

Originally Posted by Greg Needel

From reading posts over the past year or so since the new control system was announced I have come to realized that people are very nervous about it and the last thing we need at this point is a mob mentality spreading rumors.

I don't believe that the non-beta teams need access to the daily trials and tribulations of the beta teams, however I do believe that the remaining teams should have access to the technical documentation that is being given to the beta teams. If need be, include a disclaimer that the documentation is beta and may or may not reflect the final documents.

[B.Johnston]

Originally Posted by rwood359

I don't believe that the non-beta teams need access to the daily trials and tribulations of the beta teams, however I do believe that the remaining teams should have access to the technical documentation that is being given to the beta teams. If need be, include a disclaimer that the documentation is beta and may or may not reflect the final documents.

Here I would respectfully disagree with you.

In 20 some years in the field of technology based controls I have seldom learned much when every thing went right.

The best education came from experiencing the "trials and tribulations" involved in developing new knowlege and understanding.

Not that we need to see the semi-hysteria surrounding the bane bots transmission failures again, we did however, see some valid growth in how to tackle a serious problem from within the first community.

My vote is for the conservative publication of all development issues so that next january we'll have some idea of just what the questions are.

If history is an indicator, we'll always have someone who inadvertently repeats the errors of the past, but learns from it.

P.S. I'd like to just see the thing up close.

[rwood359]

Originally Posted by 1680Bruce

Here I would respectfully disagree with you.

In 20 some years in the field of technology based controls I have seldom learned much when every thing went right.

The best education came from experiencing the "trials and tribulations" involved in developing new knowlege and understanding.

Not that we need to see the semi-hysteria surrounding the bane bots transmission failures again, we did however, see some valid growth in how to tackle a serious problem from within the first community.

My vote is for the conservative publication of all development issues so that next january we'll have some idea of just what the questions are.

If history is an indicator, we'll always have someone who inadvertently repeats the errors of the past, but learns from it.

P.S. I'd like to just see the thing up close.

I don't disagree with you.

The requirement of openness in the announcement and the NDA warnings seem at odds. This is only my first month mentoring, so I haven't seen the reported panics that mis/partial information have caused.

It's part pure curiosity and part self-preservation (a ton of new information and kickoff coming like a runaway train). My real concern is getting the technical documentation.

What does WPILib contain?
How do we interact with the I/O?
Is there a timed control loop?
Is it multi-threaded/multi-tasked?
What Wind River tools are we going to have?
What features will be in the FIRST specific LV that is being supplied?

If we at least know the structure of the default program and the abilities of the underlying system, we can start to consider approaches.

I realize that the beta program is probably a check of the documentation as much as of the hardware. The announcement said that shipments of the systems would start on Sept. 15th. so if it is going to be a serial process of release to the beta teams, update, and then release the remaining teams, the non-beta teams are probably not going to see the documents for 8-12 weeks.

The first rev of technical documents are usually full of ambiguities that the writers and the people close to the project don't see because the resolution is obvious to them. I would like to see all of the documentation available and a forum where we can start commenting and asking questions as soon as possible.

[BornaE]

Notice that the Beta teams are supposed to sign a Disclosure agreement, so they will release all their findings when authorized by FIRST. I am sure FIRST has a well thought plan to release the information.

Rumors wont do anything other than hurting the integrity of the community.

Here is a great example.
All most of the people on here know is that team are supposed to sign an NDA. and everyone is arguing about it. while they have no idea what it is actually about. and we don't even know weather FIRST plans to release the documents to everyone or not.

So just hold your breaths for a couple of weeks till we have more information and don't judge FIRST's or the Beta Testers Plans with the limited information available as of now.

Thank You

ps. We are as eager to spread accurate info as soon as possible as you are to get the info.

[rwood359]

Originally Posted by 0705920

Notice that the Beta teams are supposed to sign a Disclosure agreement, so they will release all their findings when authorized by FIRST. I am sure FIRST has a well thought plan to release the information.

Rumors wont do anything other than hurting the integrity of the community.

Here is a great example.
All most of the people on here know is that team are supposed to sign an NDA. and everyone is arguing about it. while they have no idea what it is actually about. and we don't even know weather FIRST plans to release the documents to everyone or not.

So just hold your breaths for a couple of weeks and don't judge FIRST's or the Beta Testers Plans with the limited information.

Thank You

ps. We are as eager to spread accurate info as soon as possible as you are to get the info.

In truth, a voice of reason. I'll keep quiet and see what is forthcoming.

ps. I grew up in your area. I graduated from Meas High in 1962 and ASU in 1967. If it's OK, I'll PM you next time I'm going to be there visiting my family. I'd like to see your operation.