Ftc Kick off 2008

[Rick]

When comparing this to FRC, look at all the teams that build a simple reliable machine and do well year after year. Then look at the teams with money that over complicate and do poorly each year. Same thing will happen with FTC. Teams will waste time designing and building complicated metal/poly assemblies, while the teams that build simple and strong will cruise on by come competition.

I am excited about the expanded use of raw materials in FTC and hope FIRST lets us weld the aluminum.

[astephen68]

My team 478 for ftc is thinking about doing FTC this year. We are already signed up for IFI or the vex competition. This year. Were thinking about the ftc competition because this year is only 450 dollars for last year teams to buy the new kit and we need to learn the kit.

[JesseK]

Something tells me the sheet aluminum/polycarb is a solution to the expensive structural components provided by Tetrix. You'll still need some Tetrix to provide the structure, but sheet aluminum is great for the small stuff.

[Greg Needel]

If this is truly going to be an un-restricted use of aluminum and polycarbonate, why would teams even bother with the tetrix stuff?

Since weight has never been a consideration for FTC you could just cut your whole chassis out of a single flat plate of aluminum. and then make all custom mounting brackets that are ideal for your application. There have already been reports of the aluminum gears skipping teeth based on bad center to center distances, this problem could be totally avoided, now that teams could make their own custom gearboxes for FTC.

The possibilities are nearly endless and that's where I see a problem with this. Just like many other people in this thread I think that FTC should have stayed the "whats in the kit only." While it is true that some teams would always have an advantage over others, it was from a cost perspective (which accessories you could afford). Now it is a matter of machining and tools in addition to the cost of accessories.

At the same time that I think this could be a step backwards for FTC it makes sense that we should wait to see what the limitations are placed on using these components before we jump to conclusions.

[wilsonmw04]

I would be ok with the addition of simple pieces of Al or Poly sheeting (not stock). I think they would need to limit the machining to simple tools and no welding. One of the great things about FTC in the past was the "kit only" rule and being able to build a successful robot with nothing but the kit and a Dremel. I would hate to see this turn into just a small version of FRC.

[MidWFirst]

we hope there is not open machining and things like welding allowed. our school can't afford to do FRC and we don't have the machine shop access to fabricate or make our own parts out of stock metal, which is why we are hoping to do either vex or ftc this year. We already got our vex classroom kit, which the students love so far, and are thinking of ordering a ftc kit if there is an event in this area and we like the game. I guess we'll know tomorrow. But I do hope it's just the parts we get and no major modifying or machining allowed, that's one of the main reasons we want to do ftc and vex.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by MidWFirst

we hope there is not open machining and things like welding allowed. our school can't afford to do FRC and we don't have the machine shop access to fabricate or make our own parts out of stock metal, which is why we are hoping to do either vex or ftc this year. We already got our vex classroom kit, which the students love so far, and are thinking of ordering a ftc kit if there is an event in this area and we like the game. I guess we'll know tomorrow. But I do hope it's just the parts we get and no major modifying or machining allowed, that's one of the main reasons we want to do ftc and vex.

You're missing the point. Just because machining parts is/may be allowed does not mean your team or any team actually has to. Use the suggestions above and just build simple and effective robots.

[MidWFirst]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

You're missing the point. Just because machining parts is/may be allowed does not mean your team or any team actually has to. Use the suggestions above and just build simple and effective robots.

actually, I think you are missing the point. The entire point of ftc and vex is to have a program that doesn't require all the resources of FRC. If we had the ability to machine parts, weld aluminum and had those facilities (and tons of money) we'd do FRC. We don't.
But my students want to do ftc and vex so they are on a pretty even playing field with the other teams and can build all their robots in our classroom - if some schools are able to weld and machine parts for ftc, then we can't make and use many parts they will be able to. To say "just build a simple robot" is missing the point. We don't want to build a simple robot, we want to challenge ourselves with the parts available, we just don't have the resources to machine or weld parts.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by MidWFirst

actually, I think you are missing the point. The entire point of ftc and vex is to have a program that doesn't require all the resources of FRC. If we had the ability to machine parts, weld aluminum and had those facilities (and tons of money) we'd do FRC. We don't.
But my students want to do ftc and vex so they are on a pretty even playing field with the other teams and can build all their robots in our classroom - if some schools are able to weld and machine parts for ftc, then we can't make and use many parts they will be able to. To say "just build a simple robot" is missing the point. We don't want to build a simple robot, we want to challenge ourselves with the parts available, we just don't have the resources to machine or weld parts.

I was also speaking of FTC not FRC. Don't get me wrong, its great to challenge yourself but in the end I think many people will agree that it will be the teams that don't spend time trying to use polycarb and aluminum who will come out on top.

If you actually really want to do this then seek help from machine shops or your local highschool that might have a machine shop. Just go out there and make it happen. Finding machining resources is actually easier than finding people willing to sponsor teams. You can even open your yellow pages and search for "Machining" and I guarantee you will find something.

Originally Posted by Ricksta121

When comparing this to FRC, look at all the teams that build a simple reliable machine and do well year after year. Then look at the teams with money that over complicate and do poorly each year. Same thing will happen with FTC. Teams will waste time designing and building complicated metal/poly assemblies, while the teams that build simple and strong will cruise on by come competition.

I am excited about the expanded use of raw materials in FTC and hope FIRST lets us weld the aluminum.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

I was also speaking of FTC not FRC. Don't get me wrong, its great to challenge yourself but in the end I think many people will agree that it will be the teams that don't spend time trying to use polycarb and aluminum who will come out on top.

If you actually really want to do this then seek help from machine shops or your local highschool that might have a machine shop. Just go out there and make it happen. Finding machining resources is actually easier than finding people willing to sponsor teams. You can even open your yellow pages and search for "Machining" and I guarantee you will find something.

You are totally are missing the point. The reason I even have an FTC team is that it gives my small school a chance to play on a more even playing field than when we play in a FRC event. If FIRST allows complex machining, the teams with those abilities and the mentors to guide them will have a significant advantage to those teams who just have good mentors. FTC will have the same flaw as FRC. There will be two camps in competition: the haves and have-nots.

[ttldomination]

Woah!!!

Heated conversation. I must say, FTC is simple, and not havving the ability to weld and machine in major ways is what makes FTC amazing. An even playing field in more ways than you would know.

And if you look at the FTC mission statement, " The ultimate goal of FTC is to reach more young people with a lower-cost, more accessible opportunity to discover the excitement and rewards of science, technology, and engineering.".

I know for a fact that our machine shop has over $10,000 worth of saws, tools, and other things. and that's NOT including any welding equipment.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by lilstogi11

If you actually really want to do this then seek help from machine shops or your local highschool that might have a machine shop. Just go out there and make it happen. Finding machining resources is actually easier than finding people willing to sponsor teams. You can even open your yellow pages and search for "Machining" and I guarantee you will find something.

This is what I love about the FRC program; it more or less doesn't limit what you can accomplish. If you want to have a professionally machined robot, go ahead and call up the local industry, you can make it happen.

However, I loved the FTC program for an entirely different reason. I loved it because with the exception of funding to buy parts, there really wasn't a huge resource gap between the have and have-nots. Team YYY had a full machine available and you didn't? No big deal, if anything the only advantage they gained was a few minutes time shearing/bandsawing rather than hacksawing. This fact made FTC the FIRST program that could be in every school in my opinion. The way our nation is, a FRC team simply can't happen in every high school, but a FTC team easily can.

By changing up FTC so much, I think a lot of teams will be alienated. Yes, the teams that were building in classrooms and living rooms still can compete and probably be competitive, but it simply won't be the same. I think it stems back to the FIRST Board of Directors being out of teach with what being on a team is really like.

[Overyourhead]

here's a hint. the video is puled down though. Thanks Unlimited.
http://ftcunlimited.blogspot.com/200...-face-off.html


I was going to go to the kick off, but I forgot to set my alarm clock.. oops

[smartkid]

Crap, who pulled the video?

[Troubled]

I don't get why some areas get the game early and others have to wait?

Anyway, I was a little disappointed. The game doesn't look very hard, but that does not look like a cheap or easy field to build. I really don't like the autonomous start. How do they decide which robot gets to start on the field? I'm sure we will always want to. Maybe I'll like it more after we review it some, but for now, I think past games were better.