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Unread 13-10-2008, 13:54
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

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Originally Posted by Michelle Celio View Post
Now, as for "Family Location". Have we looked at Disney Prices lately? They are not exactly family friendly. A base ticket, with expiration costs 79.88 for a one day ticket, and does not include park hopping. I'm sure they offer some sort of deal for large groups, but it probably won't be that much lower.
I haven't looked at it in years, but the packages Disney offered to teams were considerably more economical than regular visitors received when all things were considered. They could manage to do quite the same again, I'm sure.

I'm among the coaches that would love a return to Walt Disney World. I am not convinced that Houston or Atlanta offers anything that Disney couldn't compete with. Really, in many ways, it was quite a bit more special.
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Unread 13-10-2008, 14:06
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

You could probably host it in Houston again at either Reliant Park, or the George R Brown Convention Center, provided you followed a different event layout/strategy than currently.

Specifically, forget all about the current methodology of having every single playing field in a giant stadium, cramming the divisional fields in as best you can around Einstein. It's ridiculous, since it's physically impossible to acoustically isolate the divisional fields in a space that open. You end up with a cacophony of fields talking over each other, seating that's only on one side of the field and often too far away, and money wasted on an Einstein setup that sits (mostly) unused for 2 days. Not to mention the pit to field walks for robots and spectators attempting to keep track of things.

Instead, go with a true divisional model. Rent out a convention center big enough to house 4 divisions of pits and fields. Put each division's field adjacent to its pit, with rented stadium seating, AV, etc. The fields can be separated enough and intimate enough to keep sound levels down and give the MCs a chance to actually be heard. Plus, walking times are ridiculously short, and you can have seating on either side of a field. When it comes time for the Finals on Einstein, move everyone to a nearby stadium/arena where Einstein has been set up the night before. Everyone always has to do the mass pit exodus for Finals anyways, so I don't think this is terribly different. If necessary, let divisional champs drag half their pit with them. You'll still get an awesome venue for the Finals action, without having to waste the space and equipment rental for it to sit idle for 2 days, plus you get a higher quality divisional experience. Granted, you don't have a convenient gigantic dumping space for superfluous team members, since divisional seating isn't going to have quite the overflow space of a huge stadium... but I think it'd work rather well.

Here's my specific pitch. Divisional competition in George R Brown CC. It should be easily sizable enough for 4 divisions and whatever extra FIRST goodness you want. It's also downtown, with lots of hotels and entertainment, and not any scarier than downtown Atlanta we're already dealing with. Einstein Finals to be held in the Toyota Center, home of the Houston Rockets. It's huge, and FIRST has already shown that basketball arena are a good fit for FRC fields. After party to be held on the Discovery Green Park and/or Level 3 of the George R Brown CC.

You could do something similar with the Reliant Convention Center + Reliant Stadium, but the hotel situation isn't as nice, and Reliant Stadium is HUGE. Much like the Georgia Dome. The advantage of a basketball arena for the finals is that it ends up much much more intimate.
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Unread 13-10-2008, 14:08
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

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Originally Posted by Madison View Post
I haven't looked at it in years, but the packages Disney offered to teams were considerably more economical than regular visitors received when all things were considered. They could manage to do quite the same again, I'm sure.

I'm among the coaches that would love a return to Walt Disney World. I am not convinced that Houston or Atlanta offers anything that Disney couldn't compete with. Really, in many ways, it was quite a bit more special.
I know Disney does offer some amazing deals, but if they offered a "good" discount back in 2002, when a one day, expiration, no park hopping ticket was $48, that's an increase of 66.42%. So even if Disney were to of given teams tickets at $24 (50% off), tickets would now be around $40, 83% of a full price ticket back in 2002.

Either way, if we're not basing having the Championship purely on Florida's tourism industry, I'd love to see it back. (Who wouldn't want a 30 minute drive to the Championship each day and still be able to sleep in your own bed?) But there have been plenty of threads on that matter.
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Unread 13-10-2008, 14:20
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

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Originally Posted by Sunbun View Post
Extremely wild idea...

How feasible would it be to have the Championship held in Canada?
About as likely as the World Series being held in Canada or the America's Cup being hosted by Switzerland.

Oh... wait a minute....

I don't think it is likely for the foreseeable future, simply because of the mass of teams and sponsors located in the United States. It makes good economic and environmental sense to locate the Championships near the "centre of mass" of the teams attending. There are also issues surrounding the proximity of pit (convention) space to the stadium (competition) space that you really have to see in order to believe. Vancouver, for instance, does not have an appropriate venue, and I have some doubts that Toronto does, either.

I would never say "never" to this idea, however. FIRST is growing and is a fairly open-minded, forward-thinking organization. Convention centers and stadiums get built and expanded. It is clear that the Championships are no longer referred to as "the nationals" or "the national championships" because of the international nature of the competition. If FIRST continues to diversify internationally then it is inevitable that the Championships will be held outside of the United States.

Just keep in mind that it took a century to get the America's Cup races to Australia, and almost that long to get a World Series to Canada. So be patient, keep a passport up to date, and just be glad that Canadians receive a warmer welcome to the USA than other international travellers who are greeted with the friendly welcome of being fingerprinted like common criminals.

Jason
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Unread 13-10-2008, 14:22
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

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Originally Posted by rc_cola1323 View Post
I think that everyone would like to go, but i heard the tents were the problem. So how do we fix that.
limit the number of people who go to the championship. If you consider the Michigan structure the way FIRST is gonging I think there is no reason the championship has to have almost 400 teams. If you reduced the number of teams to 200ish where you actually had to qualify to attend, Disney might be a realistic option.

Personally I think that atlanta is fine, but many of the new dome stadiums would be good options, Lucas Oil stadium comes to mind, as Indy would be a good place IMO.
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Unread 13-10-2008, 15:05
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

Except that under current rules, approximately 250 teams qualify directly. Plus another 30 or so that pre-qualify - HoF, past winners, etc. To cut it down to 200, you'd have to eliminate some qualifiers, and not allow any "buy-in" teams. That would mean some teams would never get to Champs; the current structure was designed so that every HS student would be eligible to go to Champs sometime in a 4-year FIRST career.

And, in the thread Andy Baker started with old videos, I believe I heard one statement of 74 teams at Disney. That's a far cry from 200.
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Unread 13-10-2008, 15:11
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

Has any one ever been to the DC convention center? If you have you will know that the thing is HUGE. If FIRST were to rent the whole thing out there would definetly be enough space. It also is right on the DC metro, which seemed to boggle a group of tourists i saw trying to go in through the out gate. Did i mention how it would also be in the nations capital? the only downside to having nationals there would be that Dulles(the main airport) is far away, but maybe once the metro is extended to it this will be a plausible site.Also i would wait and see how the DC regional goes this year.

Also, most cities that have hosted the Olympics seem suitable for the championships (ie they have lots of hotels, a big stadium and a transport system of some sort). so maybe there could be one in LA or Chicago(after the 2016 olympics)
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Unread 13-10-2008, 15:28
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

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Originally Posted by qwertyuiop[]\ View Post
Also, most cities that have hosted the Olympics seem suitable for the championships (ie they have lots of hotels, a big stadium and a transport system of some sort). so maybe there could be one in LA or Chicago(after the 2016 olympics)
L.A. would be very hard. No covered football stadiums. Hotels aren't exactly close...

You might be able to at the current site of the L.A. Regional, but a lot of airlines don't fly into the nearest airport, meaning that you have to add at least an hour's travel time.

The only other option would be Staples Center and the L.A. Convention Center, but the odds of getting the former are slim.

L.A.'s transport system, the Metro, is not exactly convenient.
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Unread 13-10-2008, 16:21
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

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Originally Posted by M. Mellott View Post
I know in Indianapolis, the Indianapolis Convention Center was part of the RCA dome. Plenty of hotels were directly connected to the building, and the CC could handle the pits easily (hey, it handled 2 world-wide Star Wars conventions without a problem).

However, now that the Colts have moved to their new stadium next door, I don't know if the new stadium has a similar setup, or what the plan is for the CC at the old RCA dome. Anyone from IN know?
RCA Dome is being torn down right now and will be replaced by more convention space that will be connected to LOS. Lucas Oil Stadium is much bigger than The Georgia Dome and could almost host the whole thing without the connected convention center.

There are lots of downtown hotels (with more being constructed) within easy walking distance, much closer than in ATL.

After party could be in Military park, big Friday social could be at the Indy Zoo.

Brand new airport terminal served by all major airlines, even some that Atlanta doesn't get (for Southwest lovers like me.) That means constantly cheep flights. In fact many people drive from Cincy to Indy to get the cheaper fairs.

The only thing that Indy is lacking is public transportation from the airport to downtown but that could be overcome.
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Unread 13-10-2008, 16:30
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

I love this discussion every time it comes up. And it seems to come up 3 to 4 times per year. There are specific requirements that come up that generally have to be met, but that wasn't the point I wanted to make today.

Are thier places that could compete with Atlanta? Yes. Are those places that offer FIRST a substantial advantage to move? But substantial I mean significant new capabilities, more/better space (at the same cost), the existing capabilities at much lower cost? Given the size of championship and what it takes to put it together, FIRST has invested a lot of social capital in Atlanta. They know the area, they know the service providers, they have relationships with the organizations in the community. From thier standpoint, there is significant risk to move versus maintaining status quo.

Plus you have little thinks that make life easier for those planning the event (and trust me it take a momumental effort to plan that event). It easier to take an existing floor plan and tweak it (say for the pits) then to develop a new one from scratch. Things like that.

A new location could be interesting, but currently I don't see the drivers being strong enough to push FIRST in that direction.

As for Canada... Or anyplace else north of say Chicago... How about someplace where it won't snow during the event?
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Unread 13-10-2008, 16:53
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

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Originally Posted by GeorgeTheEng View Post
Are thier places that could compete with Atlanta? Yes. Are those places that offer FIRST a substantial advantage to move? But substantial I mean significant new capabilities, more/better space (at the same cost), the existing capabilities at much lower cost? Given the size of championship and what it takes to put it together, FIRST has invested a lot of social capital in Atlanta. They know the area, they know the service providers, they have relationships with the organizations in the community. From thier standpoint, there is significant risk to move versus maintaining status quo.


Ah yes because FIRST is never willing to put all of the comfort of something good, past relationships to the wind to go for something more expensive and unknown risking their status quo.....cough cough control system cough cough
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Unread 13-10-2008, 16:59
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
I also suspect it's not going much if any farther west than Atlanta. Leaving the middle of the country makes it much more difficult for the majority of teams to get there.

Im not sure I understand where you are coming from here. Atlanta isnt even close to the middle of the country. Do you mean the middle of the FIRST community?
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Unread 13-10-2008, 17:05
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

From my viewpoint, there are two possible ways to look at the future of the championship.

1. Current or similar structure = domed stadium which limits you to only a few places in the country. As far as investing social capital to get this done, Indy seems like the only other viable possibility in the near future to compete with Atlanta.

2. Look differently at the event in terms of number of teams to attend and number/how other FIRST programs are involved. If this is a possibility, I'd love to see an earnest effort made toward Disney again. It was, as Madison said, very special. And, more importantly for me, I sold my wife on FIRST in 2002 based on, "Hey look at it this way. We might have an option to take the kids to Disney every year." Oops, I guess I spoke too fast on that one
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Unread 13-10-2008, 17:05
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

OR!!!!


WE STAY AT THE GEORGIA DOME!!!!!
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Unread 13-10-2008, 17:18
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Re: Location Suggestion for 2010 Championship

maybe the Sun Dome in Tampa? Or what about the Super Dome in New Orleans, I'm sure they would love the tourism to help rebuild. I went to NO last summer and it was very nice (as long as you kept out of the areas that where hardest hit by Katrina). Sure NO isn't the most HS student friendly city. But it's a pretty city (again as long as you kept away from the hard hit areas, I accidentally drove into the lower 9th and it was really bad).

But also I think that somewhere in Cali would be nice, like MacAfee Stadium (go RAIDERS). Since they always have to come to the east coast.
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