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Unread 20-10-2008, 22:53
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Re: FRC 2009 Game Manual?

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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
a friendly reminder from the CD moderator crew: please refrain from any form of discussion of cracking the manual on these forums.
Why are we so worried about this? We do not need GP from the teams to keep the manual safe from being viewed early. Have you seen the size of the key? I would argue that it is simply impossible with our current technology for anyone to crack this key in 3 days.
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Unread 20-10-2008, 22:55
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Re: FRC 2009 Game Manual?

BTW - using any Lavery clue to figure anything out could be equally impossible.
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Unread 20-10-2008, 23:10
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Re: FRC 2009 Game Manual?

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Originally Posted by xanarchyx View Post
OK just to clarify, i'm a rookie and i was just wondering why they release it early. I have no intentions to crack it or anything like that. I don't even know how that's possible if i wanted to.
Since I guess you missed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketperson44 View Post
They usually release the sections that do not pertain to the game well ahead of time, non-encrypted. The rest are released, in encrypted form, a few days before kickoff. The encryption is, shall we say, secure, and I would hope that no one in FIRST makes any serious effort to get around it. Its to prevent the entire FIRST community from overloading FIRST's servers in the minutes following kickoff.
Since everyone triesto get the game right when it is released, FIRST releases it ahead of time encrypted so they can get the game out to everyone at the same time without complications of a crashed server and unhappy teams that can't look up the rules to the game.
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Unread 20-10-2008, 23:43
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Re: FRC 2009 Game Manual?

It is likely a moot point given the security of the key, but I don't neccesarily agree with the concept that it is "not GP to try to break the key".... at least not in Canada... not yet.

First of all, it is clear that the GDC gives hints, however cryptic, to encourage speculation over the nature of the game. In the past, those hints have even included reference to the encryption code. If attempts to discover the nature of the game, or the encryption code, were frowned upon by the Game Design Committee, I can't see why they would choose to encourage them with relevant hints. (Well, aside from the fact that it provides them with a brief interlude of humour before the onslaught of Q&A forums questions start pouring in.)

Secondly the encrypted manuals are released openly. Cracking the manuals does not require intrusive or damaging hacking.

Thirdly, if someone were to figure out how to crack a high security code of this nature in two days, that single achievement would outweigh every other technical innovation and development ever made as a result of FRC... combined. The commercial, political and mathematical impact would be pheonomonal.

However, I do have to add that it may be illegal (and thus non-GP behaviour) in the USA to attempt to crack the code due to the provisions of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. I'm not familiar with all the provisions of the act, but do know that there are restrictions on the attempt (even a futile attempt?) to crack a code protecting a copyrighted work or distributing software to that end.

However DMCA does not apply in Canada (although our govenment is proposing something similar, but in some ways worse) or other parts of the world... so given that it is still legal to try to break a code in Canada, and the GDC actively encourages teams to try to figure out the nature of the game in advance of kick off -- specifically integrating the password in to the hints -- I'm not sure why it would inherently be non-GP behaviour for an individual or team not covered by DMCA to attempt to break the code.

It would spoil the fun of kickoff for those who knew the game in advance, but they would be too busy publishing in Nature, and/or explaining exactly what they did and how to their national security agencies to really worry about that. The FRC kickoff would receive more mass media attention than it ever has... likely FIRST and all FRC teams would benefit greatly from this kind of media attention.

Most likely those attempting to crack the code will learn a little about encryption and a lot about futility. But I don't automatically assume that their actions would be either ungracious or unprofessional.

Jason

P.S. Ironically, perhaps, I would view an attempt to open a KOP case before kickoff in order to get a head start as non-GP behaviour... but no one encourages that, and it would require damaging part of the KOP.

Last edited by dtengineering : 20-10-2008 at 23:55.
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Unread 21-10-2008, 08:26
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Re: FRC 2009 Game Manual?

Regarding Dave's post: What if the encryption key is the same as a past year's key? Anyone remember the 2004 code?

----
Even if a team was able to crack the encryption code, it would be thoroughly unfulfiling. It'd be like the preacher who played hooky from church one week to play a round of golf, and scored three consecutive aces. Sure, it's a great achievement, but who could he tell?
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Unread 14-11-2008, 22:56
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Re: FRC 2009 Game Manual?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Regarding Dave's post: What if the encryption key is the same as a past year's key? Anyone remember the 2004 code?

----
Even if a team was able to crack the encryption code, it would be thoroughly unfulfiling. It'd be like the preacher who played hooky from church one week to play a round of golf, and scored three consecutive aces. Sure, it's a great achievement, but who could he tell?
You may not be able to tell that you cracked it, but if I managed it by some miraculous feat I would post a ridiculously accurate prediction in a manner that made the game sound impossibly ridiculous (so no one would know I was serious) just so I can say I'm amazing with clues and use the famed cliche "I told you so"
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