What's with Apple's commercials?

[NickE]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I won't flame anyone who isn't feeling it, though I will note that 1 GB of RAM is low for an Intel-based Mac. My MacBook has 2 GB; you can now option up a MacBook Pro to four.

Yes, but why should it be neccesary to make such an upgrade on a mac, which is supposed to work fine out of the box. (as per the commercials)

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by NickE

Yes, but why should it be neccesary to make such an upgrade on a mac, which is supposed to work fine out of the box. (as per the commercials)

These days, you don't have to; the new MacBooks come with 2 GB standard. My original iBook had 1 GB of RAM; I upgraded to two, and boy does that make a Mac sing. When I traded up to a MacBook, I made sure to check the extra gig on the options list.

[Thermal]

And PC's come with 3gb standard... but thats not the issue.

That "extra gig" on the options list costs you quite a bit of money. Currently my PC has 2 gigs of ram, but it wasn't always like that. I bought (or more appropriatly, built) my PC with a Patriot 2x512MB CAS5 DDR-667 set of RAM. Cost me about 90 dollars what, 2 years ago. DDR2 ram prices were still pretty high up there so I opted for the 1 gig set. About just under a year later, I decided to throw another gig in there, so I ditched my Patriots and went with a Crucial Ballistix CAS4 DDR2-800 2x1GB set of RAM. Bought it for 90 dollars also. So essentially I doubled my RAM for 2x the price. But that really isn't fair towards this arguement. Nowadays I can buy a new 2 gig set of DDR2 RAM at around 25 dollars. Or I can get a 4 gig set for well, 100% more than that, oh, a whopping gargantuan 55 dollars (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220335)

But wait, how much would it cost me to upgrade my RAM on a mac? Well, thats a trick question, you don't. You buy a new mac. Okay, well lets set this up a different way. How much more would it cost me to buy a Mac Pro with 4 gigs as compared to a Mac Pro with 2? 500 dollars. Thats a far cry from the 30 dollar markup on a standard PC. Like... thats 20 times more.....

But that really isn't the kicker. 8800GT costs about 80 dollars now, but in a Mac prepare to shove another 150 into the "upgrade" option. God forbid I want to throw something a little med-high end, like lets say 2xATI hd4850's in crossfire. Oh wait, I can't do that. I forgot, can't game on a Mac... High end card is a measly 8800gt, while it was a nice med-end card a year ago, it can't hold its own to even a 140 dollar HD4850. Nowadays.

Of course, then theres just the outright ABSURD markups. +100 dollars for another 16x DVDRW drive, +600 for a glossy 20" monitor, MAC OSX (server) 1000 dollars, (hey, linux is free....).

Now all of these markups are based already off of a 2,800 dollar pricetag! I can build a skulltrail PC with 4 gigs, and TRIPLE GTX280 SLI and two quadcore processors for that price. What does the mac pro give you instead of the PC? An OS that limitates you in the programs you can use, and an apple logo on a pasty white case.

You cannot tell me a mac is nicer...


How does that little silver and white plastic shelled case offer any more aesthetical purposes than this alu silver Lian Li case?

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Thermal

And PC's come with 3gb standard... but thats not the issue.

That "extra gig" on the options list costs you quite a bit of money. Currently my PC has 2 gigs of ram, but it wasn't always like that. I bought (or more appropriatly, built) my PC with a Patriot 2x512MB CAS5 DDR-667 set of RAM. Cost me about 90 dollars what, 2 years ago. DDR2 ram prices were still pretty high up there so I opted for the 1 gig set. About just under a year later, I decided to throw another gig in there, so I ditched my Patriots and went with a Crucial Ballistix CAS4 DDR2-800 2x1GB set of RAM. Bought it for 90 dollars also. So essentially I doubled my RAM for 2x the price. But that really isn't fair towards this arguement. Nowadays I can buy a new 2 gig set of DDR2 RAM at around 25 dollars. Or I can get a 4 gig set for well, 100% more than that, oh, a whopping gargantuan 55 dollars (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820220335)

But wait, how much would it cost me to upgrade my RAM on a mac? Well, thats a trick question, you don't. You buy a new mac. Okay, well lets set this up a different way. How much more would it cost me to buy a Mac Pro with 4 gigs as compared to a Mac Pro with 2? 500 dollars. Thats a far cry from the 30 dollar markup on a standard PC. Like... thats 20 times more.....

But that really isn't the kicker. 8800GT costs about 80 dollars now, but in a Mac prepare to shove another 150 into the "upgrade" option. God forbid I want to throw something a little med-high end, like lets say 2xATI hd4850's in crossfire. Oh wait, I can't do that. I forgot, can't game on a Mac... High end card is a measly 8800gt, while it was a nice med-end card a year ago, it can't hold its own to even a 140 dollar HD4850. Nowadays.

Of course, then theres just the outright ABSURD markups. +100 dollars for another 16x DVDRW drive, +600 for a glossy 20" monitor, MAC OSX (server) 1000 dollars, (hey, linux is free....).

Now all of these markups are based already off of a 2,800 dollar pricetag! I can build a skulltrail PC with 4 gigs, and TRIPLE GTX280 SLI and two quadcore processors for that price. What does the mac pro give you instead of the PC? An OS that limitates you in the programs you can use, and an apple logo on a pasty white case.

You cannot tell me a mac is nicer...


That does not compare to this...



Watercooled skulltrail system with SLI'd topend cards, 4 gigs of ram and 8 cores versus a mac pro with 8 cores, 2 gigs of RAM and a dinky super low end ATI 2600pro (aka a 7600gt, a med end card 2 years ago, now a low end 40 dollar card)

Wow...

What do you gain by bragging about your computer for several paragraphs online while comparing it to a photo that isn't even a real Mac in a thread that was supposed to be about Apple's ads?

[Michael Hill]

How Apple killed the Macbook and crippled the MBP: http://www.gizmag.com/no-firewire-ki...macbook/10238/

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

Wow...

What do you gain by bragging about your computer for several paragraphs online while comparing it to a photo that isn't even a real Mac in a thread that was supposed to be about Apple's ads?

Hey, I don't own that PC. Not my computer, not bragging about it. I'm just mearly showing the possibilities. I highly suggest you re-read my post after you take off your silver and white glasses. First paragraph, show an example of a cheap RAM upgrade. Second paragraph, come up with the hardware arguement on upgrades and price. Third paragraph, reinforce earlier arguement with more examples. Fourth paragraph, continue doing so. Fifth paragraph, offer a common perception that Mac's are nicer with a rebuttal.

And I think you kind of missed the point of the post. It is just replying and elaborating on BillFred's earlier post on how "just ticking that extra gig option". And then why that is so absurd.

(I also changed the pictures, more to your liking.)

[Mazin]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

I've used Windows all my life, and have never had any major issues at all. I see no reason to switch, and no commercial would ever convince me one way or another anyways, as said commercial is produced by the company trying to sell me a product. I prefer to just look at the stats on the computer, read reviews, and try things out for myself.

As for the OS's themselves, the main problem with any Apple computer is that they are just so expensive it's ridiculous. Main problem with Windows is that any prebuilt computer that has a Windows OS on it will be loaded down in bloatware, and will run ALOT slower than it has the potential to. Luckily, I built my last computer from scratch so it generally runs perfectly (unless I do something stupid like, let's say, not insert the RAM in all the way ) and it was MUCH cheaper.

OK. Why do you use Windows? Is it its excellent technical merits? Its impeccable security record? Its thoughtful GUI? Its competitive price ($240 for "Home Premium" last I checked)? Or is it because you simply cannot switch?

When you say that Apple computers are expensive, I'm sure you mean that they don't offer much low-end models, rather than they're overpriced.

[Mazin]

Originally Posted by Billfred

These days, you don't have to; the new MacBooks come with 2 GB standard. My original iBook had 1 GB of RAM; I upgraded to two, and boy does that make a Mac sing. When I traded up to a MacBook, I made sure to check the extra gig on the options list.

Err... what do you do that uses up all that RAM?

[Thermal]

I could think of a million programs that would run better with 2 gigs of ram.

Inventor, any game made after 2006, any person that multi tasks a lot, inventor again just because its that important, and rendering program, any 3d modeling program, ect....

Personally I use windows because.. well... everything uses windows. It isn't that i'm reluctant to switch from Windows to OSX, its the fact that i'm HIGHLY reluctant to have my hardware monopolized and my OS have lacking software support from third parties. Not to mention the extra hit in my wallet for no gain in either speed, or ease of use.

Apple could gain a much larger market share if they would allow OSX to be installed on a "PC". But they keep showing that they have no interest in selling a OS, or allowing it to be used on non Mac hardware, their current lawsuit against Psystar perfectly shows that. If I could go out and purchase OSX at my local computer store, I just MIGHT do it to give it a whiz. Otherwise there is just no reason for me to ever buy a Mac, too big a hit in the wallet for what you get in return. I would not recieve any more security from using OSX than Windows. I run Avast!, Spybot and Adaware, those three programs (along with simply running the windows firewall) has kept me from recieving any high threat malware, as it simply just gets detected on download. (And yes, the only way that I would get infected is if I let it into the system, it's the only way anyone gets infected. They get it without knowing by downloading a file or program they percieve as safe).

So to directly answer your questions Mazin in short. I use windows because it is superior in 3rd party support, and OSX offers nothing in return for what I give up by switching. Also it very much is that Macs are overpriced, not in the fact that they have no "low end model". Just because something costs 600 doesnt technically mean its "low end". Considering a 600 dollar PC can perform on par, if not better than a 1100+ dollar Mac, i'd consider the Mac to be overpriced. I'd hate to see how underperforming a 600 dollar Mac would be, i'd probably cry if I had to see some simple processor and RAM benchmarks.

PS: XP 32 bit OEM only cost me 55 dollars when I purchased it two years ago. Microsoft regularly has OS blowout sales where you can get Vista 64 Bit home for 100 dollars. I'd rather drop an extra 100 dollars on an OS when building a computer, than dropping an extra 600 for a Mac. If you buy from Dell, that 550 dollar dell with its q6600 with 3 gigs of RAM comes with Vista anyways, so OS prices are moot in the retail industry. Also they've gotten much much better on the bloatware side of things.

[ComradeNikolai]

Originally Posted by Thermal

[...] for no gain in either speed, or ease of use. [...]

Apple could gain a much larger market share if they would allow OSX to be installed on a "PC". [...]

I would not recieve any more security from using OSX than Windows. I run Avast!, Spybot and Adaware, those three programs (along with simply running the windows firewall) has kept me from recieving any high threat malware, as it simply just gets detected on download. [...]

I'm going to address these point by point.
First, ease of use. Macs have a definite improvement in ease of use; one may not notice it right away because one is used to Windows, but after adjustment, it is definitely easier to use. I'll address speed later.
Second, security. Sure, you have your system completely locked down, but you require three programs PLUS a firewall to keep it secured; most Mac users I've talked to have no issues, even with torrenting, and they run absolutely no security software.

Now onto speed: I found this very interesting test. On the desktop test, they found that all their different program launches (especially the stress test) were faster on the Mac. Start up times were significantly different: it was the difference between 28.7 seconds (Mac) and 1 minute 13 seconds (MS). Shutdown was the difference was 4.0 seconds (Mac) and 44.3 seconds. These differences persisted for both laptops and desktops and the computers had similar specs. The Macs even ran Vista more quickly than the PCs.
Note: in that benchmark test, the Macs were paired against equally priced or more expensive PCs.

Now please explain: why do you feel there is significantly worse performance in Macs?

[artdutra04]

Why does any thread that even remotely involves Apple always mutate into a Mac vs PC thread?

[ComradeNikolai]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

Why does any thread that even remotely involves Apple always mutate into a Mac vs PC thread?

Genetic engineering?

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

Especially their newest one: http://youtube.com/watch?v=iHtymB-lQIc

Pot calling the kettle black? Seriously, what right does Apple have to say Microsoft spends too much on advertising?

Typical Microsoft commercial: "Look at all these people, companies and groups who succeed with Microsoft Windows"
Apple's Rebuttal: LOL LOOK AT ALL THAT MONEY YOU SPEND! MINE USES PICTURES LOL!

All I can say is that I "look-forward" to each new Apple commercial, and I "fast-forward" through the Microsoft commercials as fast as I can reach the remote.

I find the Apple commercials clever and fun; with an on-target message embedded in each one. Microsoft's commercials seem to be targeting demographics that don't include me.

Time will tell...

Blake

[mrbob1000]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/13/f...xhibitionists/

i didnt pay one dollar. got vista ULTIMATE 32 bit and 64 bit for free. and all i had to do was let them track my habbits. half the time i wasnt even on that computer.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by ComradeNikolai

I'm going to address these point by point.
First, ease of use. Macs have a definite improvement in ease of use; one may not notice it right away because one is used to Windows, but after adjustment, it is definitely easier to use. I'll address speed later.
Second, security. Sure, you have your system completely locked down, but you require three programs PLUS a firewall to keep it secured; most Mac users I've talked to have no issues, even with torrenting, and they run absolutely no security software.

Now onto speed: I found this very interesting test. On the desktop test, they found that all their different program launches (especially the stress test) were faster on the Mac. Start up times were significantly different: it was the difference between 28.7 seconds (Mac) and 1 minute 13 seconds (MS). Shutdown was the difference was 4.0 seconds (Mac) and 44.3 seconds. These differences persisted for both laptops and desktops and the computers had similar specs. The Macs even ran Vista more quickly than the PCs.
Note: in that benchmark test, the Macs were paired against equally priced or more expensive PCs.

Now please explain: why do you feel there is significantly worse performance in Macs?

I will debate that by simply saying who in their right mind would buy a PC for 1800 dollars with a e6600 processor, 3 gigs of ram and a super subpar video card? What Gateway was doing was trying to appeal to the pro-mac users by coming up with an iMac... in black. Thusly they succeeded in imitating it by making it grossly overpriced, and underperforming. So I won't be bias in that regard, buy the Mac if you are into wasting your money like that, it'll sure as hell beat buying the wannabe Mac PC.

That isn't the arguement i'm trying to convey here, thats an absurd choice of a PC to put against a Mac just because its whole goal for that PC is to be a "sleek artistic design" instead of being a work horse PC. Infact i'd go as far to say that PC is incredibly overpriced, incredibly retarded, and just tries to copy the Mac in all of its worst ways. I can say it succeeded in imitating the Mac, for the worse.

heres what i'd benchmark against that Mac....
Coolermaster Centurion 5 case - 55
Q6600 (quad core 2.4ghz) - 190
Asus p5k Pro motherboard - 102
Patriot 4 gig set of DDR2-1066 Ram - 112
WD 300gb Hard Drive - 70
NEC 8x DVD RW drive - 20
Nvidia GTX260 video card - 180
Enermax Liberty 620w PSU - 75
Vista 64 bit home basic - 90

Total - 894 before shipping, call it 935 after shipping. All prices from Newegg or remembered from the "hot deals" section at hardforum.com

That PC will obliterate any game out there, show incredible muscle in all processor intensive applications, and will just demolish inventor, cad, 3dsmax, solidworks, maya, Unreal Editor, ect. Not to mention the capability of slapping on a 50 dollar aftermarket heatsink (like the Thermalright 120 Ultra) and be capable of clocking that processor to atleast 3.2ghz easy on that motherboard. Heat would be the only limiting factor really, especially with 1066mhz RAM. (Asus boards are quite robust at overclocking, easily one of the best boards out there, probably only behind DFI).

It doesn't try to imitate the mac, it just beats it. Flat out, period, end of discussion. This whole performance thing isn't truly "Mac vs PC" its whats inside the box, not what OS you're using. You can only buy the cookie cutter builds Apple offer you, but I can build whatever I please using Windows. I can put whatever I want in there, and come out leaps and bounds ahead in just the choice of components. You cannot argue a e6600 vs a q6600, or 1 gig of RAM vs 4, or a hd2600(rofl) vs a GTX260. The selections are so vastly different in performance. The fact that I would of saved 550 dollars by building the PC listed above is just sprinkles on top of the added performance.

Maybe i'm on an anti-overpriced anything crusade, not just an anti-apple crusade. It's just that Apple gives the face of overpriced components. That gateway listed in that little Mac vs PC review is LAUGHABLE. I highly dislike that PC just as much as I dislike the Mac. It swindles users by offering an "oooh shiney yaaay" type of appeal instead of putting the components first.