Interesting Newsletter from NI

[Pjohn1959]

Was that a fiendish grin that I imagine Dave just had...

[EricH]

Originally Posted by gorrilla

why would they leave the wooden court out it rolls up you know

You don't exactly roll up a hardwood floor, the "cushion" underneath it, and everything else overnight.

Hockey arenas are easier--put something over the ice, or melt it and drain it. Not many events are in hockey arenas, though.

[gorrilla]

i think theres a machine that does it in like 30 minutes ill have to look it up its like a zamboni only smaller

[artdutra04]

Let's be pragmatic. You won't see a water game from FIRST.

Why?

...There are other competitions that deal with water.

...Water is too much trouble for all the competitions and offseason events.

...Everything moves so much slower in water, so any competitive game would be either long or boring.

...Competitions in places in severe drought with water bans in effect would be screwed.

...Water is heavy. Unless the area was designed specifically to hold vast quantities of water, structural issues may come into play.

...Leaks

Is it possible? Yes. Are the hurdles to jump high? Very. Would a water game provide a level of inspiration equal or grater than the increase in effort necessary to pull it off? Probably not.

[ezygmont708]

Logistics of A Water Game...

1) Many venues simply wouldn't allow a water game
A) Many of the venues used for FRC competitions are also used for other sports, including Ice Hockey. The equipment used to produce ice under the FRC provided flooring would not be very tolerant of a vast amount of weight "water" in a concentrated area (Soverign Bank Arena).
B) No collegiate organization is goining to risk water exposure to their very expensive wood courts (which by the way don't always "roll up")
2) It would make off-season competitions nearly impossible.
A) I know this wouldn't go over very well with our School District.
3) Impracticality of being able to test the robot before ship

Just a few thoughts from a non-engineering mentor, who knoews a little about venues and their restrictions...

Although a water game would be interesting!!! I once water proofed a remote control car, put and extended floating antenna, attached a dewalt drill motor, and an underwater camera, and drove it through a creek... Should have saved that video!!!

[kamocat]

How about using a hockey arena? I'm sure ice would be quite the obstacle, and there wouldn't be as much worry about putting studs in the wheels.

[BrentJ]

I had an idea instead of the robot having to be in the water maybe the robot could carry water.

I could see a bucket brigade game where the robots have to carry water from a tank at one end to the other end.

Or we could have robotic firemen as a bigger version of the lego games.
It would be interesting if the camera coming with the KOP can see infrared and if Labview can handle it.

Brent

[Thermal]

That is an interesting idea, but I wonder what the playing field will be covered with, tile?

Certainly couldn't do it with carpet

[Akash Rastogi]

Psh, you're all wrong anyway...the next game is in space.

[Foster]

Wow, for a group that thinks "outside the box" I'm pretty disappointed.

Think Pool. Think SWIMMING Pool. Think Olympic sized swimming pool. Think Pool at a place that has a decent swimming program so there is stands for lots of fans. Think of the finals at a Pool that was big enough to hold the Olympics at, space for even more fans. Think of underwater video to see the action on the big screen.

The venue is easy!

I think an water game would be great!

[gorrilla]

Originally Posted by Foster

Wow, for a group that thinks "outside the box" I'm pretty disappointed.

Think Pool. Think SWIMMING Pool. Think Olympic sized swimming pool. Think Pool at a place that has a decent swimming program so there is stands for lots of fans. Think of the finals at a Pool that was big enough to hold the Olympics at, space for even more fans. Think of underwater video to see the action on the big screen.

The venue is easy!

I think an water game would be great!

swimming pool would be easiest but it would have to be inside even more so up north

[Thermal]

You fail to realize that hundreds of teams are lacking in money due to pulled sponsorships with this economy, and functional ROV's are easily, EASILY anywhere from 3 to 10 times more expensive than our normal land bots.

No team can afford to build an ROV of this kind of size (28" x 38"). If they were to decrease the robot dimensions to make this sort of game feasible i'd consider it an extreme step down for FIRST.

Also correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the bots have to be tethered? I'm not sure how well radio signals travel through something like water. I think the higher the frequency the worse it travels through water, so we'd have to be on some super low frequency channels to play with an untethered bot. I'm not sure there is enough bandwith to control a robot at those frequencies.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Thermal

You fail to realize that hundreds of teams are lacking in money due to pulled sponsorships with this economy, and functional ROV's are easily, EASILY anywhere from 3 to 10 times more expensive than our normal land bots.

No team can afford to build an ROV of this kind of size (28" x 38"). If they were to decrease the robot dimensions to make this sort of game feasible i'd consider it an extreme step down for FIRST.

Also correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't the bots have to be tethered? I'm not sure how well radio signals travel through something like water. I think the higher the frequency the worse it travels through water, so we'd have to be on some super low frequency channels to play with an untethered bot. I'm not sure there is enough bandwith to control a robot at those frequencies.

You might want to talk to team 842 about the technicalities of building an ROV for competition. They run an underwater robotics event. More details at www.h2orobots.org ...

[Thermal]

Hey thats pretty nifty, though since there is already a ROV competition, I see little need for FIRST to have a ROV game.

Price wise I guess it could be affordable if the KoP came with the waterproofing things neccessary for motors and electronics.

Though I couldn't imagine the new headaches for all the teams out there.. it'd be one heckuva regional thats for sure.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Water game wont happen, especially next year. Too many new hurdles to overcome. New competition structure in MI, new controller, economy sucking...etc.

Is a water game POSSIBLE? Yes. 842 has been doing it for a few years now. Will it provide as much inspiration? Probably, again ask 842. Would it be as good for the media? Oh no, water slows everything WAY DOWN. The excitement of FIRST (which is what makes it television worthy) is in that speed, in the glare of the metal on the gripper as it raises a 10 lb ball 8 feet in the air in under 2 seconds. That is exciting. A game where robots are moving 2 fps under 10 feet of water where you can barely see them? Im sorry but thats the real reason why a water game will never happen, its not marketable. This is why Dave keeps suggesting it, he clearly isnt a marketing guy