pic: Concept 8wd Drivetrain

[sdcantrell56]

O believe me, we always think through our design. And I seriously doubt there would be anything to regret about an 8wd drivetrain as long as it's executed correctly which of course it will be.

The idea that a design should not be done because it is cool is a ridiculous notion. We had arguably one of the coolest designs this year and I will challenge anyone to argue that it was not brutally effective. We did win the Xerox creativity award at the Championships for it as well as were one of the top pure scoring robots in the world.

This idea that cool is not something to be considered kind of stifles innovative design for the sake of being safe. I caution all teams not to become to scared of a design to give it a try. Of course carefully design it, and thoroughly test it, but by all means try something different.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by gorrilla

make sure you think throug hall aspects of your descision or else you may be regretting you choice

and cool factor should not be considered

i saw plenty of teams that had cool robots but dident preform very well

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

The goal of FIRST is to inspire. If the 'cool factor' inspires then the goal has been achieved.

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

The goal of FIRST is to inspire. If the 'cool factor' inspires then the goal has been achieved.

Precisely!!! That is indeed the purpose of FIRST.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

The goal of FIRST is to inspire. If the 'cool factor' inspires then the goal has been achieved.

Yes. This is 100% correct. However whether or not "cool factor" inspires varies greatly from team-to-team and year-to-year.

Our team uses a weighted-objectives-table (WOT) to help determine what strategies and designs we want. "Cool Factor" is typically weighted significantly less than "efficiency", "elegance", and "effectiveness". This is a clear quantitative assessment of what our team values.

Excuse the expression, but that is just how we roll. Your mileage may vary.

-John

[Cory]

Originally Posted by JVN

Yes. This is 100% correct. However whether or not "cool factor" inspires varies greatly from team-to-team and year-to-year.

Our team uses a weighted-objectives-table (WOT) to help determine what strategies and designs we want. "Cool Factor" is typically weighted significantly less than "efficiency", "elegance", and "effectiveness". This is a clear quantitative assessment of what our team values.

Excuse the expression, but that is just how we roll. Your mileage may vary.

-John

I'm with John, but I'd argue that if you have an elegant robot it's probably pretty darn cool.

[sdcantrell56]

Elegant is probably what I was looking for. Elegance is what I strive for in all of my designs, and nothing says elegance to me like a highly efficient, and light weight 8 wheeled drivetrain that uses the bare minimum of metal and still is stronger than most metal framed robots.

I should also throw it out there cory that your team is one that I strive to learn from and to eventually be like. Your designs are truly beautiful.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by JVN

Our team uses a weighted-objectives-table (WOT) to help determine what strategies and designs we want.....


Excuse the expression, but that is just how we roll.

-John

Any chance you would want to share your WOT? Noob teams, and even those with years of experience, could learn a lot from a simple tool like that.


BTW, no need to apologies for that expression.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I'm not so sure I agree with this.

The goal of FIRST is to inspire. If the 'cool factor' inspires then the goal has been achieved.

In terms of design, the goal should be to create the most competitive product for the customer (the customer being FIRST).

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by JVN

Yes. This is 100% correct. However whether or not "cool factor" inspires varies greatly from team-to-team and year-to-year.

Our team uses a weighted-objectives-table (WOT) to help determine what strategies and designs we want. "Cool Factor" is typically weighted significantly less than "efficiency", "elegance", and "effectiveness". This is a clear quantitative assessment of what our team values.

Excuse the expression, but that is just how we roll. Your mileage may vary.

-John

While I agree with what you are saying here (If you've ever looked at the last 7 years of robots my teams have built you'll definately see 'industrial machine' written all over them ), I just wanted to point out that the goals of FIRST isn't to win, it's to inspire.

And while winning does tend to inspire others, it's not the only way to inspire ... and we as mentors need to keep reminding ourselves of that (we mentors tend to be a competitive lot )

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

In terms of design, the goal should be to create the most competitive product for the customer (the customer being FIRST).

Again I'll disagree here.

Our goal should be to inspire the students and help change the culture of the areas we live in. And our competitive product is the future of these students ... not some piece of whirring metal.

We're not here to win a regional or any other 'event'. We're here to win a future for these kids. If a team wants to build a 8 wheel drive chassis, and are inspired by doing that, then we should encourage them to achieve that goal and let them understand the design strengths and weaknesses of doing just that.

[sdcantrell56]

From all of this discussion, the only true weakness I see to an 8 wheel drivetrain is the added weight. However, with careful planning and material selection, not to mention smaller wheels and sprockets for the same ramp climbing ability, even that weakness can be negated. The extra machining and assembly are so small that it really is not a problem.

[gorrilla]

thats great even though i am not totally convinced that it would be a better preformer than a six wheel drive system except for climbing

[sdcantrell56]

Fortunately I am convinced and have faith in our ability to effectively connect an additional pair of wheels.

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Again I'll disagree here.

Our goal should be to inspire the students and help change the culture of the areas we live in. And our competitive product is the future of these students ... not some piece of whirring metal.

We're not here to win a regional or any other 'event'. We're here to win a future for these kids. If a team wants to build a 8 wheel drive chassis, and are inspired by doing that, then we should encourage them to achieve that goal and let them understand the design strengths and weaknesses of doing just that.

Well said and Dean Kamen did say that this program is not about the winning, it is about the learning and the future of students. Inspiration can come from anywhere: crazy robots (the pink team for me), old videos, random ideas, etc... I think that it is wonderful that a team is going through with an eight wheel drive and best of luck.

[JVN]

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56

Fortunately I am convinced and have faith in our ability to effectively connect an additional pair of wheels.

I bet you can connect 10 more pairs of wheels, 20 pairs even. The question is, why would you?

Without justification (benefit for the albeit minor cost) my team would not do it. If you find that justification, great. I'm just surprised that people would argue "we can, therefore we should". The fact that it is easy doesn't mean that it is smart.

-John