Hardest Regional

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by waialua359

So, what is the one for us? Finalists count too?

In BBQ and SAUCE (according to Billfred's specifications) only awards that you get a blue banner for count therefore Finalists do not count. I am currently testing out another regex to do Champions and Finalists instead of Chairman's winners and Champions.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by waialua359

I respectfully disagree. Generalizing that East Coast regionals are more competitive is arguable. I think we can honestly say we've experienced both and to me, they are more or less equally tough give or take the specific ones mentioned by others in this thread.

I'd say over the years, on average, if you were a decently competitive team attending the LA, SVR, Arizona, and SD regionals you had a better chance of walking home with a banner than if you were at one of the tougher east coast events. Not all east coast events are better, but some generally have more powerhouse teams.

Once again, not talking away anything from 254, 330, and 968 as they are great teams (as their championship division wins, championship wins, IRI wins, and championship finalists all prove) but if more powerhouse teams attended the same west coast regionals, they probably would have less regional wins/finalists.

[lenny8]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I'd say over the years, on average, if you were a decently competitive team attending the LA, SVR, Arizona, and SD regionals you had a better chance of walking home with a banner than if you were at one of the tougher east coast events. Not all east coast events are better, but some generally have more powerhouse teams.

Once again, not talking away anything from 254, 330, and 968 as they are great teams (as their championship division wins, championship wins, IRI wins, and championship finalists all prove) but if more powerhouse teams attended the same west coast regionals, they probably would have less regional wins/finalists.

i have to agree with the east coast/west coast thing i mean, my team talk about how we need to go west if we want to win a regional but i don't like to take the easy way i rather work for my win. ( not saying that going west is less work)

[JB987]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I was actually just thinking a bit; a lot of the teams that are attending the Vegas regional do have a lot of banners, and yes they are very good; but a lot of these banners were won at west coast regionals, which in my opinion aren't as competitive as some of the east coast ones.

I'm not saying any of these powerhouse teams are bad, just that a lot of powerhouse east coast teams that are equally good will have less regional wins in comparison.

A closer look at many of the banners earned by the top banner producers from the West shows that they were earned at Championships in competition against many a fine team from the East and other areas...there are great teams throughout the FIRST community, from all areas of the map and every Regional and Championship presents great challenges and rewards regardless of the BBQSauce associated with them...let the games begin!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Once again, not talking away anything from 254, 330, and 968 as they are great teams (as their championship division wins, championship wins, IRI wins, and championship finalists all prove) but if more powerhouse teams attended the same west coast regionals, they probably would have less regional wins/finalists.

I'm with you there, Adam. I might still be able to remember how many out-of-state teams have attended L.A. and maybe S.D. since 2004. (69, 188, a team from Ohio? that won L.A. in 2004, 2 MI teams won S.D. in 2007, and I think I'm missing a couple teams. I know I'm missing the AZ teams that had to come out for a regional before 2003.) From east of the Rockies, there have been 3-4 teams, plus 341 is attending S.D. this year.

Vegas and Arizona have had more long-distance teams, as have the northern California events and Hawaii. I'm not sure about the Pacific Northwest area.


What do you say, East Coast and Midwest? Are you going to start coming to SoCal, or do the SoCal teams have to play you on your home courts?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by EricH

What do you say, East Coast and Midwest? Are you going to start coming to SoCal, or do the SoCal teams have to play you on your home courts?

I'll tell you what, you find us a sponsor to pay for us to travel out there and I will bring you a Midwest team Yeah 397 isn't 217 but we put up a fight against em. I graciously accept your challenge provided we can somehow pay for it.

-Proud Midwest FIRST Alumni-

[=Martin=Taylor=]

What’s so great about the highly competitive regionals?


I've always enjoyed the Sac/Davis regional precisely because it was NOT very competitive. It always had an easygoing attitude and lots of spirit, everyone always seemed to be having fun.

We like to go to Davis because lots of our alums are at UC Davis, and we get to meet new teams from the Pacific Northwest.

We wanted to go to Seattle this year because it looked like a fun regional that was getting ignored, but it was reserved for Washington teams

Maybe next year...

Originally Posted by EricH

What do you say, East Coast and Midwest? Are you going to start coming to SoCal, or do the SoCal teams have to play you on your home courts?

Or maybe its hella high time some of us hella NorCal people came down and hella destroyed you!!!

[lenny8]

Originally Posted by EricH

I'm with you there, Adam. I might still be able to remember how many out-of-state teams have attended L.A. and maybe S.D. since 2004. (69, 188, a team from Ohio? that won L.A. in 2004, 2 MI teams won S.D. in 2007, and I think I'm missing a couple teams. I know I'm missing the AZ teams that had to come out for a regional before 2003.) From east of the Rockies, there have been 3-4 teams, plus 341 is attending S.D. this year.

Vegas and Arizona have had more long-distance teams, as have the northern California events and Hawaii. I'm not sure about the Pacific Northwest area.


What do you say, East Coast and Midwest? Are you going to start coming to SoCal, or do the SoCal teams have to play you on your home courts?

well im going to speak for the midwest and say that SoCal should come out to Midwest and Boilermaker and see if they still comeout with a blue banner....

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I was actually just thinking a bit; a lot of the teams that are attending the Vegas regional do have a lot of banners, and yes they are very good; but a lot of these banners were won at west coast regionals, which in my opinion aren't as competitive as some of the east coast ones.

I'm not saying any of these powerhouse teams are bad, just that a lot of powerhouse east coast teams that are equally good will have less regional wins in comparison.

I agree, but also suggest the same could be said if the West Coast powerhouses went to East Coast regionals.
Hawaii in '08 was a great indication of teams from both ends attending, which would have been even more exciting had the Canadians and Midwest teams attended.
The example definitely needs to include 39, 60 and 987. We cant forget the former Gila Monster team (they are good)!

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII

What’s so great about the highly competitive regionals?


I've always enjoyed the Sac/Davis regional precisely because it was NOT very competitive. It always had an easygoing attitude and lots of spirit, everyone always seemed to be having fun.

I enjoy easy-going regionals as well where any team has a chance of winning. It depends on what type of competition your team is looking for though. That is why teams like 1114 go to the Midwest and average easy-going teams like 11 go to Palmetto and Chesapeake for some southern sun We loved South Carolina and Chesapeake because the level of competition is right for our specific team and when you are happy with the regional you are at, your entire team will be happy as will the atmosphere at the regional. We chose a little harder regional this year because we want to test out our team's character and abilities in Philly(which we consider a tough regional but teams of a higher caliber like 1114, 71, or 217 might not).

Choose a regional that makes your team happy and that has an enjoyable atmosphere. That is why we keep coming back to Trenton, it is tough and it just makes us happy to be home. You get a comfortable feeling at your home regional. Just choose what level of play is right for your team.

[waialua359]

NJ,
now that is one tough regional. sooooo many great teams, highly competitive, lots of energy.
Wayne, when are we gonna team up finally?

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by waialua359

NJ,
now that is one tough regional. sooooo many great teams, highly competitive, lots of energy.
Wayne, when are we gonna team up finally?

Nooooo, we can't let this happen now, can we *searches for his old thread of coast collaborations*

When will you guys be back in NJ?? I really miss the shell necklaces and that Aloha spirit. =)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by lenny8

well im going to speak for the midwest and say that SoCal should come out to Midwest and Boilermaker and see if they still comeout with a blue banner....

How quickly you forget IRI 2004, 2008, and 2005.

[JVN]

To me the regional strength is based on one thing, the "JVN Fear Factor" scale. Here is how it works in my head, and why I believe I'm not out of my mind in thinking it is pretty accurate...

I can classify every team in FIRST one of two ways.

1. I'm scared of them (having not seen their robot).
2. I'm not.

Everyone makes these distinctions. There are some teams who you just find yourself in awe of. Some teams who at kickoff you find yourself wondering "I wonder what they're building?" The teams to idolize... and fear.

I can make these classifications, right now. Before the season has even started. Some teams have a history of being a solid contender. Some teams have started a shorter trend as a contender which could make me worry. Some teams are just "due".

People would argue that this is a totally biased, and quantitative way of doing things. They're absolutely right. But I've been in FIRST for a while. I've played against teams from all over the world. I've got a decent idea of what is out there...

Once I "classify" my teams, I look to see how many of the teams from category 1 are at a regional. If the regional has a lot of these teams, it is a hard regional. If the regional doesn't, it's not.

Guess which regionals rank highest on the "JVN Fear Factor" scale? Typically the ones from the Midwest give me the most "tingles". Lots of scary powerhouses there who could come away with a win.

Other Thoughts:
1. I love the ridiculousness of the East Coast vs. West Coast arguments. Yes, there are powerhouses from both of these regions. Yes, if you throw these powerhouses into a room, sometimes east comes out on top, and sometimes west comes out on top. There are a lot of factors which go into these outcomes. (For instance, lots of Midwest teams don't come to IRI at 100%, but I know that when a team like 233 or 330 makes the trip, they are going to do everything they can to be at full strength. Teams that travel to IRI typically hit a little harder than some of the locals... this is just my impression having attended for a few years. It is natural that if you're stuck in a car for 14 hours you'll be a LITTLE more committed then the team that drives 20 minutes.) Comparing these individual powerhouses together isn't going to tell you which region is stronger. Comparing how many "scary" teams are in each region will give you a better indicator of overall strength (imho).

2. I also know that on "Any Given Saturday" anything can happen. Yes, sometimes the Simbots get knocked off by a team noone has heard of, but that doesn't happen often. This can happen anywhere, it doesn't change the overall difficulty of the regional.

3. People will say "but you're not familiar with teams from <insert area here> so you can't make a general statement like this!" Look, I'm kind of a robot and strategy nut. I've been described as a "student of the game" before. I pay very close attention to the "big picture" especially at Atlanta. I've been watching Einstein intently for almost 10 years now. I don't care that your team is "feared" in Pittsburgh. If you're not scary at the (inter)national level, then you're not scary at that level, and you're not going to convince me your regional is any more difficult than it is. This system works best if you try to compare everyone at some standard. In my head, there is some unquantifiable national standard to which I measure the teams. Again, this is just the way I do things... The fact that 25 continues to kick butt in Jersey is not why I would list them as a powerhouse. Their performance on the "big scale" is what makes them scary.

Yes, there might be some REALLY great teams out there I have never heard of who never attend Championships, or who have somehow slipped under my radar. That is my loss. But really, how many of those teams do you think there are?

4. Teams vary from week to week. Some teams come out of the box very strong at early events (a great example is 121... I guess 3 weeks of practice will do that for you?). Some teams start a little rough around the edges and build over time and don't really hit full strength until Atlanta (I was going to list a few teams here, but didn't want to risk offending anyone -- you know who you are... heh). However, once those teams get rolling, they are at the top of the heap. Does this come into play in my head? Absolutely.

5. The game evolves over time. Things become more competitive as teams hit their stride. Some teams are "Week 1 Good". This is a team that comes out of the box strong, but never really improves. They've got enough firepower to win an early week regional before everyone else hits their stride and before the game fully evolves, but not enough firepower to be a true powerhouse at a later regional or at the Championship.

6. "John, your system isn't fair to younger rookie teams! They're tough competitors too!" Yes, this is absolutely correct. Some teams make a name for themselves quicker than others. Other teams will need to wait a few years before they're well known. Everyone is familiar with 1902 right? Everyone is familiar with 2056 right? In general, younger teams are less experienced and as a result "less scary" than veterans. Combine this with the fact that they're not as well known... yep, there won't be a lot of high numbers on this list. Is that necessarily wrong when you're ranking regional difficulty? Isn't it the nature of the system that more of the powerhouses are veterans? (But not necessarily vice-versa.)

7. See quote below...

We work really hard to "ambivalence-scale" our competition, as we call it. We create a competition where there's a lot of luck added to it. The rounds are only 2 minutes long; the scoring system isn't particularly fair. It favors, throughout each round, the underdog. We do that because we wanted to be like real sports, which are made to have a lot of luck in them. -- Dean Kamen http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...html?nav=rss20

Ohh well... *shrug*

Just some thoughts of how this question plays out "in my head". I thought maybe someone would be interested.

Though, I wholeheartedly agree with Cory. 1114 sets a new standard for everyone.

$.02
-John

[AdamHeard]

John; You are absolutely right.