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Unread 14-11-2008, 01:44
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

Whatever the challenge is, expect very little programming challenge. I don't think FIRST is going to push teams abilities to figure out the new controller, lab view, and on top of that come up with crafty code all in the same season.

The game... hmm. I think this is going to be another game requiring manipulation of big objects way up high, like Triple Play.

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Unread 14-11-2008, 02:39
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

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Originally Posted by Qbranch View Post
Whatever the challenge is, expect very little programming challenge. I don't think FIRST is going to push teams abilities to figure out the new controller, lab view, and on top of that come up with crafty code all in the same season.

The game... hmm. I think this is going to be another game requiring manipulation of big objects way up high, like Triple Play.

-Alex
Usually when FIRST introduces new technology they expect us to use it.

I guarantee you there will be some mega-bonus for doing something fancy in auton/hybrid with the new controller.
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Unread 16-11-2008, 14:55
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

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Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII View Post
Usually when FIRST introduces new technology they expect us to use it.

I guarantee you there will be some mega-bonus for doing something fancy in auton/hybrid with the new controller.
The last change to the controller was 2004 and there was very little autonomous bonus for knocking off the balls on the Tees, all that would happen the balls from above would drop down a few seconds earlier than normal and a 5 pt ball could be put in play (but I never saw it used). Hardly a mega-bonus.

The introduction of the camera in 2005 - upped the ante a bit with the vision tetra - but again, not much advantage and probably the most boring autonomous they've made yet. Only a handful of teams across the nation managed to get the vision tetra, most of the rest of auto-mode capable bots just knocked down the hanging tetra or moved into position. BORING!!

So I'm not predicting a huge mega-bonus for autonomous this year. I think the game will rely heavily on mechanical design and functionality and from the tip on Bill's Blog - the standard frames/bases and drive systems teams are getting used to will most likey need to be modified this year. We've had 4 YEARS of a FLAT FIELD - I bet this year there will be some kind of structure on the field the robots most get over OR get under. Ramp / Stepped Platform / Low Overhead bar or some combination of these. In 2001 they had the teeter totter but on both sides of that they had a 4" high step with a 14" high bar above it. It should be exciting to see what January will bring!!
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Unread 16-11-2008, 22:47
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

I think the game will be something that can be made easier if you take advantage of what the cRIO can do. Being my team's main programmer, I think this will be one interesting year for me.

As a side note, Dave Lavery should be sending another red herring our way any minute now...
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Unread 16-11-2008, 23:57
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

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Originally Posted by Doug G View Post
The introduction of the camera in 2005 - upped the ante a bit with the vision tetra - but again, not much advantage and probably the most boring autonomous they've made yet. Only a handful of teams across the nation managed to get the vision tetra, most of the rest of auto-mode capable bots just knocked down the hanging tetra or moved into position. BORING!!
Did you see PINK's auton that year? Very little was boring about it, they picked up two tetras autonomously, honestly that and 910's double keeper in 2007 rank among my favorite auton plays of all time

However, I do have to note a trend towards decreasing the value of autonomous. 2006 had quite possibly the most influential auton ever, a lot of matches were won and lost purely on auton. Seeing a year like that would make me happy.But seeing the trend FIRST has been taking towards leveling the playing field I agree that we will most likely NOT see major bonuses for auton this year simply due to the issues most teams will have getting anything to work. I expect the day after we get our control systems CD will be full of people asking how it works. (On this topic, please do not name threads, "Help!!! URGENT!!!!!!1")
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Unread 17-11-2008, 00:37
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

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Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
Did you see PINK's auton that year? Very little was boring about it, they picked up two tetras autonomously, honestly that and 910's double keeper in 2007 rank among my favorite auton plays of all time

However, I do have to note a trend towards decreasing the value of autonomous. 2006 had quite possibly the most influential auton ever, a lot of matches were won and lost purely on auton.
My Boring Statement had to do with watching 98% of teams do nothing or just simply knocking down a hanging tetra. PINK was in our division at nat's that year and their auto was hands down awesome.

2007 auto was fun, but just didn't get enough value - so often teams didn't even bother.

I think last years auto would be a good predictor for what we might see next year. I mean most teams had their robot at least drive across one line and often two. That in itself was fun to watch. Then there were the Masters class of bots knocking one or more balls and driving a lap. 2006 was similar as well, many teams good come up with a defense drive auto mode or a simple ball dump in the low goal. However if a top team put 8-10 balls in the top goal in auto - they won most of the time. Heck when we put 8-10 balls in the top goal in regular match play, we won most of the time.
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Unread 17-11-2008, 15:33
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

Does that mean that 2008's auton's were the best yet?
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Unread 17-11-2008, 22:16
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

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Originally Posted by Burmeister #279 View Post
Does that mean that 2008's auton's were the best yet?
This is all somewhat subjective anyhow - but as a fan, my favorite auto modes have been,

1) 2003 - Stack Attack - A race to get to the top of the ramp first and knock the stack over was very fun to watch. Many teams had success and made the first 15 seconds very exciting. In fact with that game the first 15 seconds and the last 15 seconds were the best parts.

2) 2006 - Aim High - So much variety in auto modes. Defensive modes that just drove across the field and hoped to hit another bot. Offensive ball dumpers that put 10 balls in the low goal. And for some they could actually score in the high goal.

3) 2008 - Overdrive - Watching the progression in auto modes in each match was so cool. In the first few matches not a lot, but by the elimination rounds on Saturday, teams could do several lines and a few could knock down a ball. Just seeing almost all the bots participate in the hybrid period was cool.

So I don't rate 2008 as the best - but probably the most simplest one to get something done for almost all the teams.
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Unread 14-11-2008, 09:46
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

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Originally Posted by Qbranch View Post
Whatever the challenge is, expect very little programming challenge. I don't think FIRST is going to push teams abilities to figure out the new controller, lab view, and on top of that come up with crafty code all in the same season.
Im not so sure about this, why not, isnt the idea of going to the new system to make things easier. More power and less importance emphasized on the nitty gritty of the processor and more top level coding?
We maybe doing something complex compared to previous years and systems, but i feel that because of this shift to a new system we will be doing a whole lot more than we have in the past years in terms of coding.
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Unread 14-11-2008, 19:38
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

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Originally Posted by Qbranch View Post
Whatever the challenge is, expect very little programming challenge. I don't think FIRST is going to push teams abilities to figure out the new controller, lab view, and on top of that come up with crafty code all in the same season.

The game... hmm. I think this is going to be another game requiring manipulation of big objects way up high, like Triple Play.

-Alex
Funny that you should mention Triple-Play and the controller in the same post.

The last time they added a major piece of hardware (the camera ... during Triple-Play), they asked us to try and find a non-illuminated, non-fixed position, non-fixed-orientation, target ... pick it up and put it on a structure. Yeah, they won't challange us programming wise

I actually expect this year to have an easy programming game (for those that have trouble programming) with high bonus points for autonomous quests completed (real programming challanges).
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Unread 15-11-2008, 21:17
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Re: FRC Game in 2009

The only thing that i can say for sure is that the innovation in control award is either gonna be taken by someone very deep on the ins with labview or else someone with one more switch than the rest only because the programming with labview is fairly simple *in theory*
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